Tag: andy stanley

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Exclusive! North Point Church Leader Recommends All-LGBTQ+ Queer Counselling Collective For Struggling Gay Children

For years North Point Community Church, led by Andy Stanley, has been partnering with and promoting affirming LGBTQ+ organizations when desperate parents come to see them for help with their struggling gay children, all done through the Parent Connect Ministry. This is no surprise, as Andy Stanley sets the priorities for his church, as revealed in a private, shocking Q&A where he offered some heretical hot takes on homosexuality.

Parent Connect exists to “inspire parents of LGBTQ+ children to follow Jesus by providing a safe environment where they can experience community and personal growth.” This is done through meetings, get-togethers, mentorship, and curriculum studies with parents and their gay or trans kids so they can work through their issues. Recently, they had Queer Eye for the Straight Guy icon Mama Tammye as a guest speaker and teacher.

Parent Connect is led by Amy Blakeslee, an openly queer woman, and is overseen by Debbie Causey. Causey is a long-tenured pastrix at North Point Community Church and the director of their Care network of ministries. Years ago, after her son came out as gay, she wrote the book The Big Reveal: Loving Your LGBTQ+ Child While Strengthening Your Faith, which details her experiences handling her son’s revelations. Prominent gay activist Justin Lee wrote the forward of her book, and she has his endorsement on her website. Causey speaks at pro-LGBTQ+ events such as Q Christian Fellowships.

One pro-gay organization that North Point leaders highly recommend and refer out-of-state parents to is Embracing the Journey, which we covered in our exclusive article here. That article also details how pastors and church leaders at North Point are board members of another Pro-LGBTQ+ activist and advocacy group called Renovus, including Causey. 

But there are more.

In a conversation about her book with Embracing the Journey leaders, Causey gets asked about recommendations for a “safe” counselors, which is a coded word they use to describe affirming counselors. She recommends an organization called ‘The Christian Closet,’ which she describes as a “great group” specifically designed for children and youth struggling with their identity, and McDonald agrees.

The Christian Closet is a collective of all-LGBTQ+ Christian counselors that offer virtual mental help on topics like depression, coming out, transitioning, starting your first queer relationship, deconstructing, dealing with trauma, and everything in between. It’s “an online therapeutic resource for people who are trying to work out what it means to have a LGBTQI sexual identity, or gender identity within a Christian context.”

This is not to say that some of the counselors are gay or that a majority are gay, but rather that all of them are gay.

Their website reads:

It’s a rare thing to find a therapist who personally understands the intersections of faith with sexual and gender identity. When most people find us they exclaim with relief “In finding TCC, I’ve found a needle-in-a-haystack.” When you choose a Christian Closet therapist, you don’t have to choose between someone who gets your faith or sexual orientation. That is why all of our clinicians identify somewhere on the LGBTQ+ spectrum and have done the work of reconciling their faith with that.

By doing the work of reconciling, they mean that they are all affirming in their theology and believe that homosexuality is something to be celebrated. 

Once you are ready to commit, you can peruse through the bios of individual counselors to see who you mesh well with. You can pick Karen Pace Poland, an ex-Southern Baptist who shares: 

“I also began to experience shifts in my beliefs which caused tension in our marriage. When our marriage ended I had become gay affirming and embraced that my gay friends and family members could be both Christian and gay. Since that time I’ve made peace with those two parts in me, which has been a beautiful journey. Today, I am in a loving relationship with my partner, Kim. We are both really late-bloomer lesbians.” 

Or there’s Britt Kesserow.

I identify as queer, lesbian, and genderfluid. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in California, with a specialization in LGBTQ+ Affirmative therapy from Antioch University. I am passionate about working with LGBTQ+ individuals, particularly those of you whose multifaceted identities include an important, central, faith practice, and/or relationship with divinity. My work is relational and client-centered, guided by anti-racist principles, and the belief that we can deconstruct harmful stories and co-author new ones for the betterment of ourselves and our communities.

Or a dozen more options, whose price per session ranges from $130$/h to $245/h

But what if you’re not LGBTQ+ but are a parent or sibling trying to relate to their gay family member? The Christian Closet offers those services through Progressive Christian Counseling, which they describe as their “sister site” with all the same counselors. 

Here we read: “We believe in an inclusive, transformational God who’s more interested in a “soft and open heart” versus a prescriptive way of living.” and “We’ve seen the link between shame and the requirements to work to be like Christ’s perfection. And we’ve seen the damage that comes to someone’s life when prescriptive ways of living lead to feeling worse about one’s humanness.”

We further read that: ‘We believe that you were born into original goodness and that even pain from a focus on purity comes from a beautiful place inside of you,” where “All of our therapists come from Christian backgrounds and now identify as progressive Christians themselves” Then we get this banger:

There is no hope for children struggling with their sexuality if they’re going to these places to get this sort of help. The adults have stacked the deck against them. All the paths to freedom and deliverance have been taken away.

North Point Community Church leaders, when faced with a family who is struggling because their 13-year-old daughter or 10-year-old son says they think they might be gay or non-binary, and is looking for some sound, biblical counseling and resources, directs the parents to pro-LBGTQ+ organization Embracing the Journey, and the kids to pagan pro-LBGTQ+ counselors at The Christian Closet.

My God.

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Exclusive! Andy Stanley’s Children Ministry Overrun and Led by Pro-LBGTQ+ Activists

Not only did Andy Stanley participate in a private, shocking Q&A where he offered some heretical hot takes on homosexuality, but for years one of his children’s ministries has been promoting and partnering with pro-LBGTQ+ organizations.

Debbie Causey is a long-tenured pastrix at North Point Community Church and the director of their Care network of ministries. Years ago, after her son came out as gay, she wrote the book The Big Reveal: Loving Your LGBTQ+ Child While Strengthening Your Faith, which details her experiences handling her son’s revelations. The book is filled with bad theology and sly innuendo. Watch as she pits Paul against Jesus as it pertains to speaking truth to LGBTQ+ folk, something she learned by watching Stanley’s example.

Prominent gay activist Justin Lee wrote the forward of her book, and she has his endorsement on her website. Causey speaks at pro-LBGTQ+ events such as Q Christian conferences, where she is frequently joined by Amy Blakeslee, a leader at North Point.

The Care Network has nine ministries under it, including financial mentorship, divorce recovery, premarital mentorship, crisis response, and Parent Connect. 

Where did Parent Connect come from? Amy Blakeslee is the Director of Parent Connect, and she explains the origins in her Q Conference bio.

Hello! My name is Amy. I identify as gay, my pronouns are she/her, and I’m the proud parent of three adult kids, one of whom also identifies as gay. Over the past ten years I had the privilege of meeting with hundreds of parents of LGBTQ+ children through my position on the Care staff at North Point Community Church. 

As more and more parents reached out to the church for support, I began meeting with them in their homes. Parent Connect was birthed, one of the first church-based ministries in the nation created specifically for Christian parents of LGBTQ+ kids.

Parent Connect exists to “inspire parents of LGBTQ+ children to follow Jesus by providing a safe environment where they can experience community and personal growth.” This is done through a series of meetings, get-togethers, mentorship, and curriculum studies with parents and their gay or trans kids. Recently, they had Queer Eye for the Straight Guy icon Mama Tammye in as a guest speaker and teacher.

As part of Parent Connect, North Point Church frequently partners with Embracing the Journey ministry, making it an integral part of her curriculum. According to Causey, they refer all out-of-state inquiries to them, and it has their unreserved support.  Causey explains in an endorsement video:

“We partner with them, (Embracing the Journey) by sending many couples that cannot attend locally a Parent Connect group. And I trust them completely what they teach these parents, and how they care for these parents, and it has become a ministry that is crucial to supporting parents of LBGTQ folks like myself

….Greg and Lynn are fantastic, empathic, safe people that will lead you towards a better relationship with God…They are a support, and their ministry is life-saving and life-changing. So just wanted to let you know that we are big fans of Greg and Lynn and Embracing the Journey and we hope that you will experience that as well. 

https://www.bitchute.com/video/fTpnnKDCCtyg/

The church recommends it as a trusted resource for congregants wishing to find answers and advice when their child comes out as LBGTQ+, along with navigating the emotional and spiritual complexities that the news brings. North Point Community Church has hosted Embracing the Journey conferences in the past, and currently has planned future events with the organization. 

Embracing the Journey ministry is run by Greg and Lynn McDonald. They are a husband and wife team who are both long-term members at North Point, as well as leaders in Parent Connect.  

While Embracing the Journey is unreservedly recommended by Parent Connect, many at North Point would be shocked to learn that it is an openly “affirming” pro-LBGTQ+ ministry and routinely partners with aggressive pro-LBGTQ activist organizations like The Reformation Project, which seek to advance full LGBTQ+ inclusion in the church.

Furthermore, all their resources are affirming, like books on why the church is wrong to condemn homosexuality, why the bible does not condemn homosexuality, and why queerness is a gift, not a sin. Affirming the Church is, in every word, thoroughly compromised. They teach children to love and accept themselves for who they are, because their sexual identity will never change. Because it won’t change, it must be celebrated.

But it’s not just Greg and Lynn’s involvement at North Point that is problematic. One of Embracing the Journey’s board of directors is Michael Systma. He has appeared with North Point staffer Ryan Gray on the church’s Care Network several times as a teacher. 

Another board member is Kat Tindol, who serves with the Care team at Parent Connect at North Point Community Church.

And last, there is Brian Nietzel, an open and unapologetically affirming Gay Christian. Nietzel has been involved with North Point in some capacity, speaking at a Parent Connect event with Lynn McDonald a few months ago.

Crucially, Nietzel also founded the Renovus Network, a pro-LBGTQ+ advocacy group whose mission is to “Connect LGBTQ+ individuals to reclaim and develop their relationship with Jesus” and who envision “a world where no one has to choose between their faith and sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Along with Nietzel, Renovus was co-funded by Gregory Cook, who serves on the board of Directors. Cook has been a leader with the North Point Community Church Production team for the last 13 years. He’s joined on the board by the aforementioned North Point Pastrix Debbie Causey and Affirming the Journey’s Greg McDonald.

Other board members include Sabdi Harman Waldrop, Keith Wilson, and Cortland Russell.

Cortland Russell is an open and unrepentant gay man. A few years ago, he was baptized at Buckhead Church, one of Northpoint’s Community Chuch campuses, despite it being widely known he was unapologetically gay. He writes this in a Facebook event about his baptism that he was encouraged by Causey and Cook to do so:

“Gregory Cook, Chip Fincher, Debbie Causey, Sandi Harman-Waldrop, Marissa Harrison, my LGBTQ small group, my Starting Point Group, and so many more people – you all have walked with me through this journey consistently showing me what it means to be a true Christian and how I could both honor my authenticly queer identity and have faith in Christ as my Lord and Savior.”

North Point Community Church’s ministry to LBGTQ children and parents is overrun by affirming activists in the highest positions of leadership, and they have a long-standing practice of recommending and partnering with counselling and resources from pro-LBGTQ+ organizations.

Stanley knows all about this, but do the people of North Point?


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“I Was There Too” Another Pastor Confirms Andy Stanley’s Shocking Q and A

On Sept 19, 2019, Andy Stanley participated in a private dinner with several pastors in Gilbert, Arizona. Stanley was in town for a conference and after it ended, local clergy joined him for a Q&A that was not live-streamed and was closed to the public.

There, Stanley spent the next hour and a half spouting deeply troubling and unbiblical views on homosexuality, shocking other people in the room. He suggested there’s room for gay marriage in the church, that he might officiate a gay wedding, and that we shouldn’t tell people they need to give up their homosexuality to follow and remain in Christ.

This is according to the testimony of Ryan Visconti, the pastor of Generation Church in Mesa, Arizona, who publicly purported to be there. Ryan’s testimony was confirmed by another witness, Luke Simmons, the Pastor at Redemption Gateway who was also in attendance at this clandestine event and confirmed the details.

It’s now also been confirmed by another witness who was there, Pastor Brian Kruckenberg of New City Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

This lines up with our recent report, where we detailed how North Point Community Church openly partners with and promotes gay-affirming ministries, which are deeply entwined with his care and counselling network. When parents who have LBGTQ+ kids come in for counselling, they are not told that their kids’ sexuality can be redeemed, but rather theeir sexuality is set in stone and must be accepted, and even celebrated. Kruckenberg continues:

The exposure continues.

You’ll recall that Stanley previously said that it doesn’t matter if the bible is true, so long as it’s ‘mostly reliable, and that the “foundation of our faith is not the whole bible. In 2018, he got shellacked from all sides for saying that Christians needed to unhitch themselves from the Old Testament and in a recent sermon told Christians not to follow Jesus through the Old Testament, but only through the Gospels. In the last year, he also said he preached in a way that gave pagans permission not to believe, went all in on Critical Race Theory by saying ‘it’s not enough to be ‘not racist.’ you must be ‘anti-Racist’+ you’re all racists, and then argued that white people fear black men.

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Two Pastors Drop Major Bombshell Allegations Against Andy Stanley After Attending Private Q&A

Update. A third pastor has come forward corobborating the details and the story.

Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops. Luke 12:3

On Sept 19, 2019, Andy Stanley participated in a private dinner with several pastors in Gilbert, Arizona. Stanley was in town for a conference and after it ended, local clergy joined him for a Q & A that was not live-streamed and was closed to the public.

There, Stanley spent the next hour and a half spouting deeply troubling and unbiblical views on homosexuality, shocking other people in the room. He suggested there’s room for gay marriage in the church, that he might officiate a gay wedding, and that we shouldn’t tell people they need to give up their homosexuality to follow and remain in Christ.

This is according to the testimony of Ryan Visconti, the pastor of Generation Church in Mesa, Arizona, who publicly purported to be there. Ryan’s testimony was confirmed by another witness, Luke Simmons, the Pastor at Redemption Gateway who was also in attendance at this clandestine event and confirmed the details.

Visconti writes:

This lines up with our recent report, where we detailed how North Point Community Church openly partners with and promotes gay-affirming ministries, which are deeply entwined with his care and counselling network. When parents who have LBGTQ+ kids come in for counselling, they are not told that their kids’ sexuality can be redeemed, but rather is set in stone and must be accepted.

Earlier today, Andy Stanely and his PR team deleted the sermon from their website, after getting heat for saying gays have more faith than straight Christians and for criticizing so-called “clobber” verses.

Unfortunately for them and blessed for us, we have the relevant portions uploaded below.

Stanley is getting exposed in a big way, and after covering him and his theological shenanigans for nearly a decade, we couldn’t be happier.

You’ll recall that Stanley previously said that it doesn’t matter if the bible is true, so long as it’s ‘mostly reliable, and that the “foundation of our faith is not the whole bible. In 2018, he got shellacked from all sides for saying that Christians needed to unhitch themselves from the Old Testament and in a recent sermon told Christians not to follow Jesus through the Old Testament, but only through the Gospels. In the last year, he also said he preached in a way that gave pagans permission not to believe, went all in on Critical Race Theory by saying ‘it’s not enough to be ‘not racist.’ you must be ‘anti-Racist’+ you’re all racists, and then argued that white people fear black men.

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Exclusive! Andy Stanley’s Church Hosts and Promotes Pro-LBGTQ+ Ministry (Part 1)

Days ago, audio from North Point Community Church (NPCC) pastor Andy Stanley was released, featuring him lauding the faith of gay Christians as exemplary over and above that of straight ones. The video was viewed over a million times and was enough to make the impastor trend, even though it’s hardly the worse thing he’s ever said.

You’ll recall that Stanley previously said that it doesn’t matter if the bible is true, so long as it’s ‘mostly reliable, and that the “foundation of our faith is not the whole bible. In 2018, he got shellacked from all sides for saying that Christians needed to unhitch themselves from the Old Testament and in a recent sermon told Christians not to follow Jesus through the Old Testament, but only through the Gospels. In the last year, he also said he preached in a way that gave pagans permission not to believe, went all in on Critical Race Theory by saying ‘it’s not enough to be ‘not racist.’ you must be ‘anti-Racist’+ you’re all racists, and then argued that white people fear black men.

Worse than Stanley’s troubling views on the faith of gay Christians, however, are the entanglements his church has with two pro-LBGTQ+ ministries. 

These are organizations that don’t have a biblical view of homosexuality and the way the gospel relates to it, but rather are utterly and completely heretical.

The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin that Christ died for, and through the power of the Holy Spirit those who struggle with it can mortify their flesh. The work of the Spirit is not kneecapped by the presence of homosexual desires, where God can transform every part of a man or woman’s life except for their orientation. Far from it. The Bible teaches that both homosexual actions AND attractions are sinful and must be repented of, and as a result of the process of sanctification, one’s orientation and attractions will necessarily be reordered and conformed to the image of Christ. 

This is a far cry from what is being taught at North Point Community Church.

Debbie Causey is a pastrix at NPCC, where she’s been employed for over two decades. She spent the first twelve years as the megachurch’s ‘Mentoring Director’ and then another ten as the ‘Care Director’, tasked with overseeing several programs and subordinates within her role. 

Years ago, after her son came out as gay, she wrote the book The Big Reveal: Loving Your LGBTQ+ Child While Strengthening Your Faith, which details her experiences handling her son’s revelations. Prominent LBGTQ activist Justin Lee wrote the forward of her book, and she has his endorsement on her website. 

With her experience and position within the church, Causey has championed and partnered with Embracing the Journey ministry, making it an integral part of her curriculum at NPCC. The church recommends it as a trusted resource for congregants wishing to find answers and advice when their child comes out as LBGTQ+, along with navigating the emotional and spiritual complexeties that the news brings. North Point Community Church has hosted Embracing the Journey conferences in the past, and currently has planned future events with the organization. 

Embracing the Journey ministry is run by Greg and Lynn McDonald. They are a husband and wife team who are both long-term members and leaders in North Point Community Church. Similar to Causey, after their child came out as gay, they wrote the book Embracing the Journey: A Christian Parents’ Blueprint to Loving Your LGBTQ Child and created a ministry with the same name. Their mission is to “build bridges between LGBTQ+ individuals, their families, and the church, not in spite of the bible but because of the bible…” and Stanley has personally endorsed them and their ministry.

In her role as Director of Care, Causey leads Parent Connect, a key ministry at NPCC whose mission statement explains that the groups are not “about theology, but about parents loving their LGBTQ+ loved ones well.” Greg and Lynn are leaders in Parent Connect who lead groups of LBGTQ+ kids’ parents on a regular basis, and the couple has NPCC’s unreserved support. Causey explains in an endorsement video:

“We partner with them, (Embracing the Journey) by sending many couples that cannot attend locally a Parent Connect group. And I trust them completely what they teach these parents, and how they care for these parents, and it has become a ministry that is crucial to supporting parents of LBGTQ folks like myself

….Greg and Lynn are fantastic, empathic, safe people that will lead you towards a better relationship with God…They are a support, and their ministry is life-saving and life-changing. So just wanted to let you know that we are big fans of Greg and Lynn and Embracing the Journey and we hope that you will experience that as well. 

Here’s the problem;

Embracing the Journey ministries is an openly “affirming” pro-LBGTQ+ ministry and Pastrix Debbie Causey is a board member of another openly-affirming ministry. 

On ETJ’s Recommended Reading page, they give the disclaimer that “These are curated resources that we believe will help you on your journey. Please know that we only endorse the works listed below.“

What is endorsed by them? Along with listing Debbie Causey’s book, three others stand out.

There are no books that present homosexuality as a sin to be repented of, but rather all them point to it as a blessing to be celebrated for.

If this weren’t enough, Embracing the Journey has also repeatedly partnered with The Reformation Project, an organization overseen by activist Matthew Vines that is dedicated to advancing LGBTQ+ inclusion in the church. Greg and Lynn McDonald have been keynote speakers at Reformation Project conferences and have acted as facilitators for their gatherings. 

It only gets worse, much worse, and we’ll tell you why tomorrow.

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Andy Stanley Says Gay Christians Have More Faith than Straight Ones+ Dismisses “Clobber Verses”

North Point Community Church ‘impastor’ Andy Stanley continued his wretched job of smarmily making his way into the consciousness of Christendom, this time by lauding up the faith of gay Christians as exemplary, over and above that of straight ones, while dismissing and brushing off certain scriptures as “clobber” verses.

You’ll recall that Stanley previously said that it doesn’t matter if the bible is true, so long as it’s ‘mostly reliable, and that the “foundation of our faith is not the whole bible. In 2018, he got shellacked from all sides for saying that Christians needed to unhitch themselves from the Old Testament and in a recent sermon told Christians not to follow Jesus through the Old Testament, but only through the Gospels.

Speaking at the Drive 2022 confernece, he explains.

(If we could) figure out how to get straight people as excited about serving and engaging as the gay men and women I know, we would have a volunteer backlog. That’s my experience in our churches. Let me just read it to you. A gay person- when I say gay, men and women, okay? A gay person who still wants to attend church, after the way the church has treated the gay community, I’m telling you, they have more faith than I do. They have more faith than alot of you. A gay person who knows, ‘you know what, I might not be accepted here, but I’m going to try it anyway.’

Have you ever done that as a straight person? Where do you go where you’re not sure you’re going to be accepted, and you go over and over and over and over? Only your in-laws house, that’s the only place you go where, you know you’re not completely accepted but you go over and over and over and it’s because you have to. But other than the in-laws, what environment do you continue to step foot in knowing at any moment, you may feel ostracized? No place.

I’m telling you, the gay men and women who grew up in church and the gay men and women have come to faith in Christ as adults, who want to participate in our church, Oh. My. Goodness.

He continues, calling certain portions of the scriptures “clobber passages.”

I know 1 Corinthians 6 and I know Leviticus and I know Romans 1– so interesting to talk abut all that stuff (Editor’s not. Pay attention to his tone there) but just-oh my goodness, a gay man or woman who wants to worship their Heavenly father, who did not answer the cry of their heart when they were 12 and 13 and 14 and 15?

God said ‘no’, and they still love God? We have some things to learn from a group of men and women who love Jesus that much and who want to worship with us. And I know the verses. I know the clobber passages, right. We got to figure this out, and you know what? I think you are.

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Andy Stanley Denies Hebrews 4:12, “Don’t Say ‘The Bible Says'”

North Point Community Church ‘impastor’ Andy Stanley continued his wretched job of unhitching the church from all the scriptures by claiming that appealing to pagans who want to “restart their faith” with the authority of scripture is not a good tactic, and that saying “the Bible says” is “not an adequate starting point or returning point for many adults.”

You’ll recall that Stanley previously said that it doesn’t matter if the bible is true, so long as it’s ‘mostly reliable, and that the “foundation of our faith is not the whole bible. In 2018, he got shellacked from all sides for saying that Christians needed to unhitch themselves from the Old Testament and in a recent sermon, told Christians not to follow Jesus through the Old Testament, but only through the Gospels. A few weeks ago, he said there’s no ‘Clear Divine Standard’ of God revealed to mankind, and then documented him explaining that pastors should preach in a way that gives pagans permission not to believe. 

In a newly unearthed clip from his 2015 sermon series Starting Point, we read:

In fact, adults often need a brand new starting point for faith. So, what we’re going to do in this series, what we’re going to do for the next few weeks is, we’re going to hit the restart button. We’re going to hit the restart button, and ask the question: “What if we didn’t know anything, where would we start? What if we never heard any of those stories, where would we start? What if we never read the Bible, where would we start? What if we’d never gone to church, where would we start? Where would we start if we were starting all over as adults as it relates to faith and specifically as it relates to the Christian faith.

…We’re going to have to approach this a little bit differently than perhaps you approached it as a child. Because starting off with faith as a child is very different than starting off with faith as an adult.

Now, a part of the problem, part of the problem in Christianity is that when we grew up, we were taught the Bible. And that in and of itself is not a problem, but in some ways, the way we were taught the Bible is problematic. Because if you grew up in a home like I did, or a culture like I did, or a Christian tradition like I did, I heard that this was the word of God, and I’ve always believed that. I’ve heard that it was infallible and I’ve always believed that. I heard that it was inerrant, there were no mistakes, and I believe that. I heard that it was all inspired from Genesis to Maps.

…And you know, Adam and Eve and Jesus and Noah and Moses and Jesus is coming back. It’s all equal. It’s all on equal terms. But unfortunately, because the Bible was presented to us as a book, which it is not, because it was all presented us to us one holistic thing, which it is not, because we never even understood where this came from, it was a house of cards.

So all someone had to do was come along and pull away a couple of the pieces, a couple of the foundational pieces, and suddenly the whole thing comes tumbling down. And so we went off to college and we discover that even though it was sacred it wasn’t scientific. And even though, you know, it was something to appreciate it wasn’t necessarily something that was factual. And even though there were stories in here that were inspirational, they weren’t necessarily true.

…And then you went into an environment that didn’t respect it. And suddenly along with your childhood faith, that starting point that seemed so relevant way back then suddenly it all went away.

Here’s where things get really wild.

See, here’s what I think. And here’s where we’re going for the next few weeks. And here’s where I’m going to challenge you a bit. And here’s where there may be some misunderstanding, and here’s where you may be tempted to send me an email. So just hang on. “The Bible says” in quotes, “the Bible says” is not an adequate starting point or returning point for many adults.

For many adults, it’s not enough for me to say to you. “Okay, now I’m going to restart your faith. Now, the Bible says”…..

You’re gonna go, “okay, I already did that. I already did “the Bible says,” I grew up with “the Bible says”, and I know what the Bible says, but let me tell you about my job. Let me tell you about my divorce. Let me tell you about my children. Let me tell you about my unanswered, prayer. Andy, if we’re going to try restart my faith by starting with ‘the Bible says, the Bible teaches’- Not interested.”

So what I’ve come to believe in, what we’ve come to believe in, a reason we’re doing this series, is that “the Bible says” for many adults, is not an adequate place to start.

Stanley ultimately argues that we should not start with the bible, but with the person and resurrection of Jesus, which is nonsensical given the only revelation we have about the person of Jesus is found….in the bible.

Stanely does not believe “the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Instead, he believes them in a lot of ways to be a hindrance to someone coming to the faith, especially the Old Testament, and must be qualified, tolerated, and explained away.

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Andy Stanley Says It’s Super important to ‘Brand’ Your Church so it Looks like your Community.

North Point Community Church’ impastor’ Andy Stanley continued his wretched job of unhitching the church from all the scriptures and proliferating his bizarre and sub-biblical hermeneutic, claiming that he purposeful preaches in a way so that pagans will feel comfortable not believing the gospel message, and purposefully encourages them to “check out” when he’s only talking about Christian issues.

You’ll recall that Stanley previously said that it doesn’t matter if the bible is true, so long as it’s ‘mostly reliable, and that the “foundation of our faith is not the whole bible. In 2018, he got shellacked from all sides for saying that Christians needed to unhitch themselves from the Old Testament and in a recent sermon, told Christians not to follow Jesus through the Old Testament, but only through the Gospels. A few weeks ago, he said there’s no ‘Clear Divine Standard’ of God revealed to mankind and yesterday, and yesterday we covered him explaining that pastors should preache in a way that gives pagans permission not to believe. 

Now, in a recent ‘He Gets Us’ podcast with Ed Stetzer and Albert Tate, Stetzer asks Stanley to speak on engaging culture, and Stanley underscores the importance of long-term friendship evangelism before the thought of sharing the gospel is even a sparkle in your eye:

If I am to follow the way of Jesus, then I begin conversations and I begin relationships not with what I believe or what I think or my opinion, I begin with shared values like Jesus did. This is why people who were nothing like Jesus liked Jesus, because they were convinced he liked them…and as a Christian, I can begin a conversation or a relationship with anybody around shared values. It might be a long time before I get to, ‘here’s what I believe, and here’s where we disagree’

Stanley then reaffirms the importance of the church rebranding so it reflects the culture, earlier explaining that Paul became all things to all men so that he might win some, and this is what the church must do

....we have some marketing and some rebranding to do. But the actual experience within a local church is a powerful, powerful community of people who know they’re broken, who’ve come together to do life better and to, you know, to follow Jesus.

..We have tried to adjust our sails with what’s happened in our local communities in the United States. And not just in the United States, but even in local communities within our local within our city, because a large city like Atlanta or any large city, there are multiple cultures, multiple communities. My assignment (as our) lead pastors is, we’re not trying to cookie cutter, you got to create the best church possible for unchurched people in your specific community. So you’ve got to brand your church to your community so it looks and feels and functions like your community.

Stanley says that his church has been externally intentional about being “endearing” to the community and not exasperating them, last year saying this played a big role in why he shut down his church during the pandemic for so long, explaining:

“We want them to know we’re here, we want them to be glad we’re here, we want the community to be better off because we’re here.”

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Andy Stanley Says He Preaches in a Way That Gives Pagans Permission Not to Believe

North Point Community Church ‘impastor’ Andy Stanley continued his wretched job of unhitching the church from all the scriptures and proliferating his bizarre and sub-biblical hermeneutic, claiming that he purposeful preaches in a way so that pagans will feel comfortable not believing the gospel message, and purposefully encourages them to “check out” when he’s only talking about Christian issues.

You’ll recall that Stanley previously said that it doesn’t matter if the bible is true, so long as it’s ‘mostly reliable, and that the “foundation of our faith is not the whole bible. In 2018, he got shellacked from all sides for saying that Christians needed to unhitch themselves from the Old Testament and in a recent sermon told Christians not to follow Jesus through the Old Testament, but only through the Gospels. Just a few weeks ago, he also said there’s no ‘Clear Divine Standard’ of God revealed to mankind.

Now, on a recent ‘He Gets Us’ podcast with Ed Stetzer and Albert Tate, Stanley explains his novel approach.

Stetzer: Okay, you’re saying to give them permission not to believe, but you are calling them to something, you’re calling them to a belief? How do you do both of those things?

Stanley: It’s a great question and tell me when I’m talking too long. The invitation is to follow Jesus. That’s it. The invitation is not to believe something. I’m not sure you can make yourself believe something you don’t believe-that’s a big discussion for another day.

The invitation is to follow Jesus. This was his invitation before they even believed, before they knew anything about Jesus; follow me, take a step, follow me through the Gospels. So changing, you know, it affects our apologetic, it affects our invitation, it affects our approach, it affects everything once we decide, you know what, we are creating a safe place.

And of course, we’re going to challenge people, but the great thing is this: a practical sermon works for anybody that’s willing to practice it, whether it’s on marriage, relationships, fixing a relationship, money, whatever it might be. So there’s a way to approach it, and one of the things that I’ve just gotten in the habit of doing is I’ve just, I’ll say in the middle of a sermon. ‘Hey, if you’re not a Christian, what I’ve said so far, knock yourself out. This will help you. From this point on, you may just want to check out because this is really just for us crazy Christians.

I mean, I will be that specific because I want them to know I know they’re there, and I have no authority over them, and I’m not expecting them to do anything. They’re a guest in our home. This is how we do it here, but we’re so glad you’re here.

And again, that’s my language. I think the better we get at that, the easier it is for people who are exploring faith or reexploring the faith after maybe a bad church experience. So yes, there is a call to action there is a challenge

h/t Andy Stanley

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Podcast! Founders Ministries’ Lack of Discernment, Bart Barber’s Personal Twitter Magisterium, and Is God Just As Sad at Natural Disasters As We Are?

On Protestia Tonight, David talks about Bart Barber’s personal Twitter Magisterium, a little bible shreddin’ with Andy Stanley, and Jonathan Leeman’s dull take on Christian Nationalism. In the patron-only portion, we take issue with Founder’s Ministries’ lack of discernment on Side B “Christianity.”

On Bible Bashed, Tim and Harrison ask whether or not natural disasters are as bad as they seem, whether they are within or beyond God’s control, and whether or not God wills for 60,000 souls to be killed in Tsunamis and the subsequent threats of disease and looting. (Hint, he does)