Oooooh…We see…TGC Says that Online Church is Not Real Church. Wow! Do They Really? How Interesting!
The Gospel Coalition (TGC) thinks you are stupid. No really, they think you are so slow, that they have done whatever the theological equivalent is of peeing on your head and telling you it is raining. What other explanation do we have for Jonathan Leeman’s recent article in that rag geared at effete men telling you that “There’s No Such Thing as Virtual Church” after these people have spent the last 18 months telling you that there is and that it’s awesome and it’s the best thing ever?
The overarching message from the coalition has been loud and clear: “You should obey the government if they say not to gather, or only gather in small batches, which is an act of sacrificial service, and an act of love, and a good witness to your neighbor.”
In doing so, the Gospel Coalition has essentially been functioning as the Ministry of Propaganda and Public Enlightenment for the government, giving writers the platform to explain how pastors being arrested for having church services isn’t persecution, how if you say the government has “overreached” in their actions towards refusing to allow people to have church services, that it Is a denial of “objective reality” and claiming that Christians have endured no “hostility” or “ill treatment” from the government during the pandemic.
TGC has taken all sides of the argument then tried to convince you it’s a circle. These cowards and frauds have been telling the world how being together in church isn’t safe right now, and maybe congregants should not sing in church, why we need to obey the government, why it is an act of love towards your neighbor to stay at home and not gather, why the virtual church is a good option and is the source of so many ministry opportunities, and how to boldly witness while streaming online, and etcetera ad nauseum.
Now in the new article, Leeman posits:
Once the pandemic began, many churches livestreamed their services, and many voices extolled the enduring value of “virtual church.” Pastors who had previously decried the idea now opened up “virtual campuses” and staffed them with full-time pastors, promising that the campuses would continue indefinitely. This was an exciting development in the history of fulfilling the Great Commission, some said.
He leaves the identity of “many” and “some” up to the imagination when he really could have been pointing to a contributor list to the website.
The push toward the virtual church, we fear, is a push to individual Christianity…to offer or encourage (even with good intentions) virtual church as a permanent option, hurts Christian discipleship. It trains Christians to think of their faith as autonomous. It teaches them they can follow Jesus as a member of the “family of God,” in some abstract sense, without teaching them what it means to be a part of a family and to make sacrifices for a family.
…Pastors should encourage people away from virtual “attendance” as much as they are able. We need to find a gentle way to remind our members that the livestream option is not good for them. It’s not good for their discipleship, and it’s not good for their faith. We want this to be clear to them, lest they become complacent and not work hard at gathering with us, if they can.
Yes. That is completely true. Stand up. Slow Clap. Yea and Amen.
The only thing is that it was said 18 months too late when no one cares and it costs nothing to say. While we were saying this back in March and April of 2020 and getting crucified for it, people like Leeman and organizations like TGC and the Southern Baptist’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) were arguing that the government has the God-given power and authority to shut down churches and that the church should submit, leaving either “no church” or “virtual church” as the only options – the latter of which he now says is not a real church.
Just stellar stuff.
You will recall it was Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever who took a swing at John MacArthur last year for insisting on having whole-congregation in-person gathering while extolling the right of the state to restrict in-person gatherings so long as it was temporary. This might explain why Cheverly Baptist Church, where Leeman is an elder, along with basically all TGC churches “temporarily” shut down for such a long time, over 14 months with some of them. (And a side note, why is Leeman’s church insisting any children older than 5 are required to wear masks? Gross, dude.)
Now, we learn the whole thing was a mirage. You were doing something through the webcam and your digital communion, but it was certainly not church and it was certainly not good for your soul.
Good to know.
About Author
Looks to me like they’re swinging too far back toward the other extreme. I have to take issue with the “individual Christianity” part of his statement. It’s dangerously close to “churchianity,” the false belief in collective salvation, and in context it implies that it is necessary to follow the crowd rather than adhere to God’s Word. With so many churches becoming apostate these days, and good Bible-believing churches very few and far between, a Bible-believing Christian just about has to be somewhat of a “lone wolf.” But I have debated this issue for decades, even with my own pastor. I know it’s unpopular, particularly among Baptists.
I took issue with that too. We know salvation and our relationship with Christ IS individual. I will not answer for any sin but my own. God will not save my family because I repent and believe. Our faith is honed and sharpened by gathering with the saints. It doesn’t save us, but gathering is worship of our King and it spurs us on to obedience and perseverance. Leeman needs to get off the cultural relevance train and remember what salvation is and why we worship God corporately.
Yes, that’s exactly what the apostates want. They want people to deviate from God’s Word. They want to get people in where they can be weakened, controlled, and swayed off the path. Feeding into that is a bad idea. I was just reading Hebrews 10, and it’s interesting why they were told not to forsake the assembling of themselves together. That one verse is often taken way out of context, and when it’s used, the question then becomes who is “yourselves” – that chapter defines it. In particular it is to strengthen, provoke, and rebuke one another to not waver, to fear God, and to not sin – i.e, to sharpen iron with iron – which is just about the opposite of these apostate churches. My personal opinion is that if you find yourself in a church where you’re being pressured to deviate, then you need to get out. If that means you have to stand alone, then so be it you stand alone.
The purpose, according to Hebrews 10, is to strengthen one another, such that we do not follow the crowd, to have the strength to stand, the strength to resist temptations of the world, and if necessary stand alone. That strength, built on fear of God, is the objective. But that’s one way in which that scripture is often taken out of context to mean almost the exact opposite.
The early church, they were being dragged into coliseums and fed to lions, imprisoned, put to death. Told if they would just say this one little thing, or support this one little thing, deviate just a little, their lives would be spared. That’s the strength, the faith, the fear of God, and why they assembled. But the apostate “church” nowadays is more like the crowd in the coliseum stands who cheered it on.
It’s The Gospel Corruption, what did you guys expect from them? They can’t be taken seriously, they’re spineless, effeminate Christians who are ashamed of the Gospel being the power to save. They rely instead of vomit inducing tactics as “winsomeness” or going on apology tours for why Christians are so bad. You can’t win the world to Christ through worldly tactics. Maybe if TGC got back to the plain preaching of the Word and calling the world to repentance by the terms God has set in the Bible. Thank God for real masculine christian men like JD, Voddie, John MacArthur and many faithful others who aren’t afraid to confront godless culture with the Word and let the chips fall where they may.
Protestia very rarely looks at the cult Hebrew Roots – which goes very quickly into occultism, satanism, and building temples and Jewish kabbalah (occult witchcraft), and seems to focus mostly on Pentecostals and NAR like groups, and I’m fine with them having that focus if they do. (although there has been some crossover in the two groups. Michael Brown is one).
However, I’d like to say that WND, a site that has promoted this heavily, and stealthily once, has barfed a big one today, with both founders going all in. There’s some good Christian witnesses against when they do, and they are worth reading even as the HR crowd tries to smear it.
reader
“You didn’t read it, did you? Or you didn’t understand it. What was the very last thing that angry Farah wrote? It says, “He wants to bring you back into covenant with Him.” That means that without being in the feast, you are OUTSIDE of the Covenant. To bring someone back, you have to be outside the covenant. Now that is arrogant to say that Christians that refuse to participate in Judaism are not saved. Do you get this or not? It is appalling.”
In reply to the owners’ “The Day of Atonement is one of your God’s feasts, one of His appointed times. He wants to meet with you. He wants to bring you back into covenant with Him”. Last sentence in article.
He’s reply: “Thank you Aaron”
That’s right. He’s now rewording Christian invitations to be saved to mock them, and inviting people to the old testament, and then thanking them for noting it.
I don’t post on WND any more. I enjoy the fact I can sit back and read good Christian posts against all this extreme apostasy and evil solicitation without having to, where once I felt I was a lone voice. I posted once today as an exception, but it wasn’t an agreement to keep doing it at all.
But sometimes those messages against all this by Christians have been very good reading, so if anyone wants some reading, and the posters this weekend haven’t worn themselves out, they might look there.
Qanon + anti-semitism = domestic terrorist
Johnny + internet = domestic dumbass
#reportjohnnytothebureauofdumbasses
Watch your fruit!
Seems every time you turn around these days there’s a newfangled movement of some sort.
I believe they started out trying to address the antisemitism, which does need to be addressed, but now might’ve taken it a bit far. In my opinion, if someone wants to celebrate Jewish holidays, wear a Yamaka, light a Menorah, not eat pork, attend church on Saturday, circumcise their children, or adhere to other ceremonial law, no problem, just don’t say it’s required for salvation or anything Christians are obligated to do.
1 Corinthians 7:18-20, Romans 14:1-6
On the subject of the ceremonial law, in those passages Paul is basically saying “It’s not important. We’ve got bigger fish to fry.” And that couldn’t be more true these days. Nitpicking about insignificant stuff will only distract us from what’s important.
Anti-Semitism is literally the worst problem ever followed by white rage, you obviously are a enabler of both
Truth hurts, don’t it, troll?
For the record, Max wasn’t referring to Jews at all. He was referring to Christians who practice Old Testament ceremonial law. Look up “Hebrew Roots.” It was capitalized for a reason, illiterate one. But you have nobody fooled, Johnny boy. We know what you are.
Being a godless, uneducated deviant is literally the worst sin against humanity. I’m reporting you to the proper authorities.
#reportjohnnytothebureauofdumbasses
Just wait until normal Christians discover what’s in the Talmud, calling Christ a “sorcerer” and saying He boils in a pit of feces in hell 🤬 (ive been to Israel was spat on by rabbis for spreading the gospel… nasty people)
Well, yeah, that’s also in the Bible – the pharisees accused him of being Beelzebub, which is worse than a sorcerer. They call him a sorcerer because even in their historical tradition they know He did live and He did perform the miracles, etc. We have to love them anyhow.
We should love our enemies. Jews are our enemies same as Taliban. Worshipping the so-called “chosen race” is not Biblical. Especially the Talmudic ones. I’m sure I will get accused of being a Nazi domestic terrorist by our resident 🇮🇱 worshipper for saying this lol
It was questioned even back then, and that’s why Paul was addressing it. Believers with a Jewish background continued to practice Jewish customs. Believers with a Gentile background did not. Even today many Jewish Christians continue to practice Jewish customs – eat kosher, meet on Saturday, wear a Yamaka, celebrate Jewish holidays, etc. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Wel I grew up in the Herbert W. Armstrong / Worldwide Church of God cult, so I can think of a lot of problems with Judaizers. As a matter of fact, so did Paul, Justin Martyr, John Chrysostom, Augustine, and Martin Luther.
Yes, in those passages I posted, Paul is not referring to all of the levitical law. He’s referring to the insignificant stuff like whether or not you eat pork, what day of the week you meet, whether or one is circumcised, etc. My point is to be careful about who you label a Judaizer. Celebrating Jewish holidays, wearing a Yamaka, meeting on Saturday, and insignificant things like that do not make one a Judaizer. Don’t get caught up in bickering about insignificant stuff. 1 Cor. 17:20 says “Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.” Some came from Jewish backgrounds, some from Gentile, etc. Some followed Jewish customs, some didn’t. But there is a distinction between insignificant customs that are “nothing” and the commandments of God – 1 Corinthians 7:19.
Secretly gay and open worshiping the golden calf of the so-called “chosen race” … how is WMD any different from any other megachurchy evangelical institution? At least they also push forever war for our freedumbs.
Ben, did you perhaps miss Farah’s wife posting this this weekend, “Jesus says eternal life is dependent on obeying Torah”,
while Farah was posting “The Day of Atonement is one of your God’s feasts, one of His appointed times. He wants to meet with you. He wants to bring you back into covenant with Him.” – like Christians currently aren’t for not keeping it.
This is the equivalent to the owner of this sites article “my tone of voice offends you”? I’m not going to let you passive aggressively suggest that I might be wrong or exaggerating, or that the facts I listed are untrue in the slightest (with many many more). or that I somehow lack discernment in the slightest – or even that I agree with this owners definition of it — I don’t. Instead, after both owners posted the above this weekend, with one titled ” “Jesus says eternal life is dependent on obeying Torah”, it is you Ben that clearly lacks discernment or just don’t care – while you passively agressively try to water down my warning to others who might hear it.
I’ve talked to Farah over the years by email, very nasty person – it wasn’t over hebrew roots, several reporters, including Corsi, who then preceded to take all my research and correspondence by email and phone, and wrote several articles based only on that. The thing he left out was the kid who shot the congresswoman (Gilford), (which become involved in gun control). was involved in a virulent form of jewish occultism. In fact, they might have been in the same synagogue, but I’d have to look it up. It wasn’t why I was interesting in the story (I was looking for mind control), but Corsi suddenly ends the story set with “the cia did it”, out of no where, and tells me privately (it was probably by email, and I’d still have a copy”), that he didn’t need to write more, he just wanted to get it out of the news cycle, and ”run out the clock”.
I lost complete respect for him and partially for wnd at that point. He didn’t care about the truth, he just wanted to manipulate the news. In retrospect, it was probably just to cover up this story “jewish kid loses mind over jewish occult rituals”. It would match the rest of how WND spins stories (going back decades), but that Corsi did do that for whatever private reason is true, and I still have the correspondence (and his old phone numbers). I lost all respect for him then, and every time I talked to a person at WND over the years, I learned more about them.
That’s long winded, but the short of it, after the first or second correction — yes, what I am saying is true about wnd, and you trying to whiddle it down for others, I’m going to beg off from you – my “discernment”, really my prudence, says we could not talk together as friends, you’d always by putting me and others in danger trying to water down and delay true things said. “Jesus says eternal life is dependent on obeying Torah” – Mrs Farah, last weekend.
I will say something about rebuke though for all, next reply, since I have said something about rebuke before.