Breaking! New Leaked Transcripts Show Cindy Clemishire Discussing Her Abuse With Robert Morris+ “I am not trying to blackmail you”
Cindy Clemishire reportedly asked disgraced Gateway Church pastor Robert Morris for $2 million to prevent her from going public with accusations of his molestation of her as a child.
According to a new report from NBC News, a former member of Gateway’s IT department provided the news organization with transcripts from a previously unreported September 2005 phone call between Clemishire and Robert and Cindy Morris, with the three discussing her molestation and what ought to be done about it.
In the transcript, Clemishire references her previous emails threatening to go public with news of her abuse.
“Okay,” Morris then said, according to the transcript, “tell us what you need to tell us.”
Clemishire referred to her emails from that year telling Morris that she planned to go public with her story or seek criminal charges against him unless he paid for what he’d done.
“Well, I don’t think money is going to help you,” Morris said, according to the transcript.
“Who said it was going to help me?” Clemishire said, interrupting him. “It is certainly helping you.”
Morris pointed out that he did leave the ministry and get counseling after the incident and Clemishire lamented that he suffered so little consequences.
“Two years out of the ministry big deal…I just have a real problem the fact that you have gone untouched by this.”
Morris later responded: “Maybe I wasn’t asked to do enough but I did everything I was asked to do.”
Clemishire asked Morris how he’d feel if someone had abused his own daughter the way he’d abused her.
“I think you would be horrified, at least I hope you would.”
“Sure, I would’ Morris responded,
Throughout the conversation, Clemishire repeatedly insists that it’s not fair that Morris has suffered no consequences and asks how he’d respond if a pastor in his own church molested someone as he had done to her:
“Would you not think they should pay?” Clemishire said, according to the transcript. “It may not help you to see that person go to prison. But don’t you believe that they should pay for the crime done?”
“Well,” Morris responded, “I don’t know weather it would be my responsibility for them to pay for the crime done or not.”
“I really honestly feel like it is not fair,” Clemishire continued. “It is not fair for every single thing that I have gone through and still going through and for you to have no (repercussions).”
Following Clemishire’s repeated instances that Morris should pay something, he insisted that it’d be wrong for him to pay her to keep silent, suggesting that he was being blackmailed, which seemed to irritate Clemishire.
“I am not trying to blackmail you,” Clemishire said on the call. “I am not trying to say you pay me or this is what I am going to do.”
“Ok,” Morris said, “do you want to put an amount on it then?”
Despite repeatedly insisting that Clemishire name an amount, she kept seeking to redirect the conversation back to the injustice of him being a wealthy and famous pastor while her life was one of turmoil and struggle, how she’d suffered at his hands. She talks about how he’d be destroyed if it came to light, arguing that him never having to face responsibility for it is not right. Finally, though, she relented.
“Put a price on it,” Morris said…
“It is not a small number,” Clemishire responded. “Money doesn’t make you happy and I can understand that. So that is not what this is about.”
Morris again pressed her to name a figure.
“Two Million Dollars,” Clemishire said, the transcript shows.
A moment later, Morris ended the conversation.
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The shakedown for money combined with reports that even her parents considered this girl ‘very flirtatious’ and possibly more of a willing participant than she’s indicated makes her seem a little less innocent. However, absolutely nothing makes Morris’s actions less than criminal and disqualifying to be a pastor.
12 year olds are not capable of consenting for sex.
Victim-blaming is never a good look.
And claiming a 12 year old is ‘very flirtatious’ is wild. Clearly her parents did not raise her correctly. This sounds more like post-facto revision of history instead of a fair representation of the facts at that time. And Morris has described himself as what can only be seen as a predator.
Perhaps no one is right in this situation. But Morris committed a grievous sin and received no punishment for his actions. And he was permanently disqualified at that point. But he wasn’t
The claim that she was 12 is new. She was 17 when Morris admitted to an inappropriate relationship with her. Cindy claims that Morris and church elders knew she was 12 and she would provide email proof. She provided the emails, but there is no mention of her being 12-years-old. When she threatened to go public with her story, Morris said that if Clemishire wished to make her story public, he also was “willing to do so.”
Do you really believe that included the accusation that she was 12 at the time it happened?
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This is a difficult situation. As an adult woman who was raped/molested at age 8, I can certainly sympathize with her pain. HOWEVER, as a result of the sexual knowledge imposed on me as a child, AND the subsequent, desperate, need for gentle, positive, loving, attention in the aftermath—coupled with living in a pretty sick situation with a psychotic, narcissistic mother—I became somewhat flirtatious with older men by the age of 12, seeking to receive some sort of affirmation, and positive, loving attention from them . I lived in a sick, caustic, toxic, environment. I had NO help or counseling whatsoever. I was told it was all my fault for being pretty. So, I continued to respond to life in that fashion to a large degree, until the age of 35, when I returned to the LORD and He began to make me wise. At that point, I was set aside, and have been single, and alone, serving Him with all of my heart as best as I can–to this present age of 61.
I spent many years offended, and angry at my abusers (sexual and otherwise), until I found out that one of them received JESUS and had died of lung cancer. The LORD took me to a place of joy and victory right there. He made me realize, the devil–who had worked so hard to destroy two lives, got nothing. NOTHING for all the work all the years in these two lives. Just knowing that, made me completely overcome everything sick and sexual, that had happened to me.
It seems that Robert Morris has done all he knew to do from a believer’s standpoint to rectify the situation.
There’s nothing else he can do or could have done. So now, he is exposed to the vengeance of the victim. If he is truly the LORD’s man, he will survive this, and the LORD will carry him through the situation. He may lose a lot in the process but will have gained his soul for the LORD.
I never received any apologies. I never received any offer for help nor any support whatsoever. Had any one of the offenders ever come forth and confessed, I probably would have healed and forgiven on the spot and started healing then.
Which leads me to this:
If she was flirtatious towards him, exactly what had happened to her before this?
He molested her for four years as a handsome, older man, until she was about 16, or so–did this cause her to be in love with him and resentful that he did not respond as she wanted him to, so she went to her father and outed him for revenge at the time?
Why didn’t her father immediately press charges? did he do something to her too, or perhaps a friend or uncle, and he was covering? Is that why he asked her to keep everything quiet, for fear of her exposing the other things?
Did he already have experience with her vengeful heart in that regard and refused to let her do this again?
The amount of 2 million dollars looks like blackmail for sure. It certainly looks like she was trying to extort him. Has anyone checked her credit?
Why wait another 19 years to address the situation? Is there a boyfriend in the background demanding money and pushing her up to do this? Or is she trying to secure a relationship with the promise of a huge payoff coming soon from this and they will live happily ever after?
I am NOT trying to Hillary bash the victim here. This is INDEED a heinous crime that should have been legally addressed at the time. But now it has turned into a tangled web, and many are being hurt in the process.
It has been my experience that if we take it all to the LORD, His vengeance is perfect and He, alone, knows what to do.
Lisha, thank you for sharing your thoughts and personal experience here. You have stated very well what I have been trying to articulate since this alleged abuse by Ps. Robert Morris, as reported by his accuser, Ms. Clemishire, was reported. I concur with everything you shared here from my own similar life experiences, including your description of your mother. I would love to connect and hear more. Thanks so much for what appears to be an unbiased and transparent point of view as someone who has actually, through healing by Jesus Christ, found peace by overcoming hate, bitterness and unforgiveness.