Where Are They Now? ‘Bad Christian PodCast’ Discuss Their ‘Faith’
For many people, the boys at the Bad Christian Podcast have been out of the limelight for the last few years, being much more prominent in the mid-2010’s when their proclivity to curse openly during their show and defending a routine dropping of the f-bomb was still somewhat novel for protesting Christians, with Mark Driscoll having grown of it by then.
The show, which comprised of Emery Bandmates Toby Morrell, Matt Carter and their friend, pastor and former Emery bassist Joey Svendsen, (now since gone) was fresh air for some who were burned out by the burning out of the emergent church a few years before. With their straightforward and unfiltered dialogue and discussion, as well as their willingness to question why Christians believe what they believe, it was a natural home for many.
But the deconstruction of their faith and the constant prodding and poking of theological foundations had consequences, and now five years later, they’ve been torn to shreds.
They released an interview they had with the Provoke and Inspire Podcast, and we were given clarity on exactly how far they’ve gone, describing “the journey of learning to let go of things that seem very important and unlearning the behaviors and patterns that we had been programmed with by our families cultures and choices.”
One big change is that one of their primary co-hosts, pastor Joey Svendsen has left the show. He struggled with mental health issues, a spiraling depression, and disagreements over how the show could proceed with that reality, and now he’s gone.
He has his own podcast now, “Pastor with no Answers” where he delves more into his progressive beliefs, such as his support of same-sex marriage, his belief that there is no eternal hell, his loss of belief in the sufficiency and infallibility of the scriptures, promotes aged Emerging church mainstays like Brian McLaren, and demonstrate that his shows namesake holds true.
For Bad Christian, however, Toby and Matt likewise explain that their views have changed and they’ve become “less certain” over time. Note that these quotes have been lightly edited for clarity.
“At this point I’m comfortable saying that I’m sure I’m some kind of relativist and it would probably make you more comfortable to think of it as “but do you believe in absolute truth?” And I’d just go with “no.”
Acknowledging that “we might just be like the culture and do what we want to do.” he explains:
One of the things I don’t want to do anymore is try to stop sin. What I want to do is to start seeing what things actually are and then I can realize if it’s good or bad for me.
Because his belief are ever-changing and contradicting themselves, he never has any confidence in them, and he’s ok with that “I can’t act like I know my morals are on the right track” and that because he knows he’s just going to violate them anyway, using pornography as an example, “I try not to think about morals, is a goal of mine, to try to not worry about those.”
Matt explains how “morals are a low-resolution tool for achieving desired behavior outcomes for myself” and using sex outside of marriage as an example, he explains how “I don’t believe my morals are right or wrong anyway. Like I don’t need to know which ones are the right or wrong ones. Like I just don’t have that view. “
When the host calls his belief system “a bit naive” Matt responds that his new perspective is that “it only works if it’s working for me now” and that the other way just didn’t work out so he’s trying a new system, explaining that his deconstruction means that “I’m going to have different words for what is definitions of what sin is, or what it means that God has a moral system.”
“That’s the thing that really bummed me out. Morals and saying ‘God told me not to do that so I won’t do it’ didn’t work for me. Like I still did things and then I just felt really bad about it.”
When the interviewer asks Matt how he sees scripture and whether or not it is infallible and authoritative, he says that he’s getting a lot closer to Thomas Jefferson on that one, the past president who famously created a bible where he cut out all the miraculous parts of it, and is moving in that direction heavily. He praises the efforts of the process of Jefferson to make the scriptures work for him, and says he is “interested in more types of scripture now”, which he acknowledges makes him “more of a pluralist.”
He says of the bible “I do not know if it should be the supreme authority of a human’s life….as authority is something that is earned.”
While it has earned a spot in his own life, he clarifies “I would never push that on someone else.”
Both hosts describe how they haven’t been to church in over a year, and Toby explains that they don’t take their kids to church because don’t want their kids introduced to the biblical historical Christian orthodoxy- “I wouldn’t want to do that to them” especially because it doesn’t line up with who they think God is or what they believe.
Toby offers that “I could see us in the future moving away from Christianity” and notes that all his family believes they are lost.
The show essentially ends with this bleak quote, which encapsulates the whole episode. The interviewer pushes a bit into the purpose of proselyting and sharing the gospel, and the boys respond poorly to it, challenging the belief that anyone really needs Jesus or why he’s needed to live a fulfilled life, comparing a Christian life vs non-Christian life.
You’re saying “Jesus is real” and so having that knowledge and that he lived and died and rose again gives you something that maybe the person that doesn’t believe that has, but I’m saying take morals out of it. Say you’re equally as moral people, I don’t know what more you have except for you have something you really believe in.
So that’s great for you, and it’s awesome for you, and it helps shape your life, but the person who doesn’t believe that has everything as well and you’re both going to die and figure it out when you die anyway.
I don’t know, like proselytizing the world and sharing Jesus seems more to me like a sales scheme to get more people on my team as opposed to, I’m not really offering them anything, except for maybe an afterlife.
I might get to say ‘hey, there might be an afterlife’ but no one really knows, I mean, no matter what no one’s been able to really prove that. When you’re dead you’re gone, so there isn’t really anything more, so your belief would be for you then.”
Pray for Matt, Toby and Joey. Nothing that you’ve just read should give you any confidence that they are believers. These are lost souls headed to hell, and only God can save them.
About Author
For whatever reason, this post touched a button for me. It amazes me how many are falling into this, “we just don’t know/can’t know”. Truly they don’t trust God’s Word and perhaps that is why they don’t have knowledge about any of the things they are abandoning. I’m currently dealing with an individual who is headed down this path and nothing I say seems to have any effect on stemming this fall. This group/generation that is having this lack of faith problem is going to be the undoing of our Nation as if enough hasn’t already been done. Thanks for this article.
luke
The Bible and the Holy Spirit that’s our answer and our power. Stop trying to answer life’s questions when you aren’t abiding in Christ and Him abiding in you. You don’t have all the answers. There are mysteries and we have faith. We need a to read our Bible thoroughly and be quiet for a while and listen to God. There is so much talk about God we need to talk to God and listen to God. Sin separates us from God. We need John the Baptist. Seeing and knowing God begins with humble repentance. I weep for my generation who were on fire for God teenagers and deconstructed their faith in seminary. Did we win the world by doing this- no. We lost our faith. So sad.
This saddens me so much. I grew up with the whole Christian Rock scene of the ’90’s and 2000’s, and the music is still a big part of my life. It is absolutely troubling how many members of these bands have fallen away, or are in the midst of walking that slippery slope. That whole scene has proven nothing but poison to those involved with it, including causing people to lose their faith. I quit listening to Bad Christian years ago because they seemed to not just wallow in relativism, but encourage it. At best it always seemed like they had trouble differentiating between God’s laws and legalistic man made traditions. At worst it’s as if they wanted to redefine what constitutes sin. Once Joey started advocating for Annihilationism, I couldn’t listen anymore. I just never understood why the Emergent/Progressive types can’t admit what their true intentions are. They all can’t seriously be that confused, right? Of course not, they have deluded themselves. As a fan of Emery’s music, hearing the distancing from faith of Matt and Tobe has been disheartening. However, this seems to be a major trend in Evangelical circles. Quite simply, it’s obvious that we are at least in the early stages of the great falling away, if not even further along. Sad.
When evangelicalism turns hip…
It just attracts a bunch of people who don’t believe anything but want to make a living being hip. We knew this already. When you open the orthodoxy up for hip questioning culture, the questioning hipsters flood in. Nature abhors a vacuum.
Satan’s plan is clearly to infiltrate every denomination and take it down from within. Witness, well, the deconstruction of every denomination. Taken down by the people who claim to be its leaders.
Quasi-famous Evangelicals who don’t believe in evangelicalism is getting downright boring. Snore, another poser who cashed in and then says, “you know, I’m just not sure about any of this.”
Seriously, they are going to hell? You should never say or pronounce that on anyone…. Judge not lest you be judged. Only a creator can say whose going where. Lol
YES! This article seems to be arguing against the actual teaching of Jesus- ask, seek, knock. Also, Jesus , lover of enemies, would never send anyone to a place where redemption doesn’t exist. Sadly, misinterpretations of scripture, mixed with a love of power over people will lead to rebuking those who are simply asking, seeking, and knocking.
This article drips of “Christian” insecurity —and as if it’s evil to question anything about texts that were curated by men over the course of centuries and were translated time and again to the point that some languages don’t even capture nearly the whole meaning intended. Not to mention, centuries of crooked politics inside and outside the church. Thank God people are questioning and not checking their brains at the door! I don’t want to be shoulder to shoulder with or looking to compliant drones who can’t tell you why they believe what they believe in their very core and how they got there without just saying because something or someone told them so. That’s no different that people who do it for other things and get criticized by the church. We have no right to present a powerless “good news” looking like uptight buffoons stuck in our own bubble. Gods word does not return void. Period. And if something isn’t coming back fruitful and your first thought is to criticize that people aren’t falling in line, ask yourself why and maybe consider God isn’t standing with your favorite flavor of religiosity that might actually be detrimental to the body of Christ that he loves. Also, condemning a human lien you are the judge, jury & executioner? Yeah, no. And know that you’ll answer for that later the same way anyone else would who did the same to you. Stay humble.
Side note: This is also a huge reason why I distance myself from my SBC roots. Some days it feels like a car wreck you can’t stop looking at just shocked. Yowza.