Hillsong Takes a Defiant Tone at Their ‘Scandal Q & A’ Meeting. This is What We Discovered
On Thursday evening, Hillsong had a church meeting to discuss the recent events of the last month involving financial scandals and accusations of fraud. Though they unlisted the video, we located and uploaded a copy of it here.
During the evening, Hillsong leaders acknowledged that many members were confused and upset over some of the reports, but took an overall combative tone. They claimed in many aspects that they were acquitted of wrongdoing and were being misrepresented, offering some clarifying marks that did little to address their errors. In all, it was a surprisingly defiant affair, with frequent vagaries.
They begin by addressing matters of compliance with government mandates and the policies of the Hillsong Board, promising that the new board is going to set things right:
Question: These allegations suggest Hillsong has ignored its compliance responsibilities. You’ve been involved with our church for a number of years now. How do you view our attention to compliance?
We go back well over a decade that I’ve been involved in advising. I then went into government and then came back out of government. And certainly if I can speak personally, my observation is that the leadership here are taking governance really seriously. They would not have appointed a governance review of both the global and the local if they were not serious about (unintelligable) Secondly, (they) took those recommendations and acted on each one of them. And I think that indicates, really,a seriousness about getting accountability and transparency right for these times.
Question. From what has been tabled, there appears some evidence of excessive spending. How do you think we should go about handling things of this nature going forward?
Answer: I think governance really is about setting the boundaries in your policies, having a very clear and transparent what the expectations are, having checks and balances there so anything that departs from that is called out.
And I think that’s not just a paper thing, that’s really a cultural thing, that people need to have that freedom to say, “I want to call that out. We’re going outside the rules that we’ve set.” And so again, clear standards, clear accountability, and enforcing that accountability.
Question: Is there anything you’d like to just say finally about the journey we’re on here? Where do we go from here? And where does church go from here?
Well, we’ve been under significant pressure from a number of sides. And I think the the challenge is not to wallow in that or get distracted. Take it seriously. Take it systematically, but really, also get on with ministry and not allow that to be be crippled by looking back unhealthily.
We are then treated to the closest thing they come to admitting fault, before they go on the offensive later.
Please be sure that as leaders of Hillsong Church, we welcome the opportunity to be examined, to clean house where it’s needed, and to become better. Two weeks ago today, we witnessed the largest release of church information in our history. 10 years of bank statement, detailing every transaction this church has made and 10 years of board meetings and governance steps are now in the public domain.
The level of transparency, albeit through parliamentary privilege, is extreme. Perhaps ironically, through these disclosures Hillsong Church has become the most transparent organization in this country.
These disclosures have confused and embarrassed many of us. Some of the details released in this disclosure have understandably upset many members of our church and team. Those feelings are real and valid, and as a board we hear you. Most of us are here tonight have sown our heart and soul into Hillsong Church, sowing without expectation of return personally, but to see souls saved, and lives turned around. We want a church worthy of our Savior.
Some of you are angry. Others of you are disappointed at some of the spending of the past. We may be angry at those we believe have let us down, disappointed that our sacrifice was not shared by all. These feelings are real. At times like this we can forget the growth of the church has seen and the impact we have seen as Jesus has placed his hand on countless numbers and thousands souls. I want to recognize that through these disclosures, many have been embarrassed, hurt, mistreated.
Different groups that I want to recognize specifically: our youth, minors, children under the age of 16 whose identities have been disclosed carelessly and needlessly. Staff who have diligently made our programs and events happen each week to serve our church community. Their spending is now under the microscope of hindsight. Givers who faithfully gave to the Lord, not wanting their deeply private sacrifice made public for all to see. Our creative community who has led worship, not only for our church, but for churches all around the world. They have written songs labored have worked collaboratively. With an estimated 50 million people singing songs in churches around the globe every week, and more than 15 million followers on a YouTube channel alone. We’re committed to our creative community, and we’ll endeavor to support them in their tireless commitment to leading our church, and millions more in the worship of Jesus Christ.
And our volunteers, the last group, who have served over the past 10 years, particularly those who gave themselves in relative leadership, on the various boards, where now the spotlight and scrutiny made be felt personally.
We also want to provide context tonight regarding some of the source of this hurt. But first of all church, I want to say clearly, today, some of our systems and processes, particularly for credit card transactions have fallen short of the mark. A root and branch review and changes which Colin Campbell will outline later tonight, will show that we’re not making improvements, we’re making changes.
We failed to fix systems that that should have been fixed with our growth, we kept them at a level that was probably inadequate. As the current chair of the board, I want to sincerely apologize to you. The church. For us. For us having failed to develop these systems that kept pace for that growth, we must do better going forward.
Hillsong categorically denies that they engaged in any fraud or illegal activities.
Did the church engage in fraud, money laundering and tax evasion? Has the church complied with the charity’s legislation and requirements? Were church funds used for an improper purpose, such as (unintelliegable)
I’m going to address these systematically, and I’ll try to do this quickly. Did the church engage in fraud, money laundering and tax evasion? The Church gives considerable attention to ensuring it operates according to law. The board has sought legal advice as you’ve heard in relation to whether the church deliberately or inadvertently participated in such activities. And on that advice, we do not believe that the church engaged in them.
Attention turns to the claimed $150,000 that Houston and his friends and family spent on a three-day vacation in Cancun. Hillsong says it was to have a ‘global strategy meeting’ but also acknowledges that they previously did much of the work remotely, so why the need to have a meeting in person at the cost of more than a tenth of a million dollars? Could they not continue this meeting through Zoom, as they were already doing? Why Cancun when the vast majority of attendees were from Australia? Which hotel did they stay at? Who was all there? Why did Brian and Bobbie Houston need $12,000 in accommodations for three days?
They don’t say, but they want their meager crumbs to be the last word.
The church consists of several legal entities which consists principally for furthering the Christian church. There are several entities that make up what you and I know as the church. And each of those charitable organizations have governing documents that are available on the ACC website. So when looking at expenditure, it needs to be seen through the lens of that organization’s purpose.
So let’s take Cancun for an example. It’s been claimed that all members of the Houston family and their friends enjoyed a three day luxury retreat in Cancun using $150,000 in church money. On the face of it, it could be a private benefit. However, when you investigate the detail, you find the purpose of the gathering was for a global strategy meeting for the global reach of the church.
There was 15 attendees, which included the lead pastors from various key locations around the world strategically within the global church, and three support staff members, such as an event coordinator from the USA. The participants in the global strategy meeting had already worked together on a global strategy remotely for a while prior to inperson gathering where several formal agenda items were worked through.…The costs were paid by Verto LLC, Hillsong Global LLC, and Hillsong International Limited which are all kind of global entities.
The claim of $150,000 is broken down as follows: $25,000 for flights. $32,000 for accommodation food and ancilliary costs. $55,000 for other internal and (inaudible) flights. $12,000 for accommodation for the Global Senior Pastors to allow them to minister to other churches, and attend a studio in California where they prepared and filmed for online church. And unfortunately, a $32,000 return flight for one of the attendees when he explained this cost lower was due to the pandemic.
Attention turns to honorariums, which saw some pastors receive $100,000 for single sermons. Hillsong defends this by saying they are a generous church and points to how small a percentage of their budget it is.
The implication made by the member (Wilke) that gifts and honorarium were given to evade taxes is not supported by the findings of the forensic audit…where a director and or pastor conducted speaking engagements outside of their portfolio duties, they are also entitled to be compensated. Each year, the entity Hillsong International Limited which is the global entity of the church, and therefore did not interfere with the budget of the Australian Church and its operation, allowed a budget which (inaudible) and financial considerations such as projected income and expenditure, for gifts and honorariums. As we are desirous to be a generous church that appreciates its staff and volunteers. From my understanding the annual global budget allowed to the Global Senior Pastors to give, was around $70,000 to $120,000, depending on the preceding variable factors, which if you see that in relation to the scale of the global budget was about 0.1% to 0.18%
Hillsong speaks to three high-profile accusations found in the executive summary that made the rounds. They do not discuss the $35,000 and $20,000 cash gifts that were given to board members and other pastors on their birthdays.
In September 2022, a 2500$ Louis Vuitton luggage was gifted to a retiring global board member who volunteered and provided their contribution, time, knowledge, and wisdom for free to help with the church for a period of nine years.
In Christmas 2022 as part of the gift budget $13,325, which is equates to $85 per board, was spent on 156 custom skateboards, and as a Christmas gift to leave campus pastors, elders and board members as a thank you for their service to the organization. And we receive a discount which reduced it to that $13,325 figure. It was not a skateboard for riding but intended to be an artwork hanging on the wall.
Now, in March 2021 a $6,350 Cartier bracelet was organized by the Color Conference executive who approached the general manager for a budget to purchase the gift to thank Bobbie for her service to a global women’s movement over a period of 25 years. (Audience claps)
Now while these purchases were not for private benefits or made with the intention of scamming church members, we recognize that there are issues and risks associated with the use of honorariums as outlined in the ACC website. For this reason, the board has adopted a gift and honorarium policy, which sets out limits for gifts. The approval that may be necessary on the value of the gift and its purpose and a register of gifts if things go over that limit. So if over a certain value, they can be reviewed by the board.
Hillsong says it’ll likely take over a year for the forensic accounting team they’ve commissioned to pore over their books and give a full report on the gaps in their fiscal policies.
For more on Hillsong:
Top 10 Weirdest Things Hillsong Leaders Expensed to the Church (Number 7 is $1467.28 for a Single Uber Ride)
Top 10 Most Expensive Meals Brian and Bobbie Houston Expensed to the Church (Number 4 is $2433.38)
Top 10 Luxury Hotels Hillsong Leaders Expensed to the Church (Spoiler: The Cheapest is $8457.42).
What is ‘Hillsong Family’, and Why Do Some Churches Pay $100K a Year to Join It? Ft. Judah Smith
A Step-by-Step Account of How The Hillsong Money-Making Scam Works
Hillsong’s Compassion Contract Details Revealed: What $1,000,000 Really Gets You
Hillsong Church Salaries, Royalties, Benefits Revealed. $1.9M, $ 1.7M, $1.5M, $876K, $540K
h/t Hillsong ACCountability for the audio.
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