John MacArthur Under Fire for Questioning Mental Health Diagnosis: “There’s no such thing as PTSD”
Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church has come under fire for comments he made questioning the mental health diagnosis of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), suggesting that at least in the latter, it is being clinically defined and pushed to give Big Pharma an excuse to make money off medicating for it.
During a recent Q & A panel at the ‘For the Valley’ conference , which also featured Jonny Ardavanis, Costi Hinn, and Scott Ardavanis, MacArthur shared:
I was reading a book, an interesting book, called A Profession Without Reason. It’s a book that shows basically- this is pretty shocking to some of you- that psychiatry and psychology is finally admitting the noble lies that they’ve been telling for the last hundred years. And the major noble lie is there is such a thing as mental illness.
Now this isn’t new. You have Thomas Szasz back in the 1950s writing a book (who was a psychiatrist) on the myth of mental illness. There’s no such thing as PTSD, there’s no such thing as OCD, there’s no such thing as ADHD. Those are noble lies to basically give the excuse to, in the end of the day, to medicate people. And Big Pharma is in charge of a lot of that.
If you understand, take PTSD for example, what that really is is grief. You were fighting a war, you lost your buddies, you have a certain amount of survival guilt because you made it back (and) they didn’t. How do you deal with grief? Grief is a real thing. But grief is part of life.
And if you can’t navigate grief, you can’t live life. But if you clinically define that, you can give them a pill, a series of medications, and they end up in LA homeless on the sidewalk.
MacArthur has been critical in the past of much of the discussion and treatment of *some* mental illness and afflictions, previously noting that “more mental illness and a lot more aberrant and abnormal behavior can be attributed to demonic work than we ever imagine” and “I do believe that much of mental illness is a result of demonic and satanic activity, but it’s hard to just isolate it because it’s a result of sin. It’s a result of willful choices made by human beings, and it certainly involves Satan, and if we knew the truth we would know that standard psychological answers don’t solve that problem.”
While he does have his supporters praising him for his assessment, the vast majority of the discussion so far that we’ve seen has been largely critical, including from many people who say they are supporters and fans of MacArthur, but believe he’s missed the mark with this one.
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A diagnosis is a description of symptoms, that’s it. It can be helpful for determining treatment (medical or otherwise), but is not an excuse for something. That being said, what is categorized as PTSD is not grief and MacArthur is being dismissive at best.
Neither is it a “disorder.” Just about everyone has experienced trauma, even if it is on small scale. Yet not everyone deals with this in a good way (i.e. they stuff it down; depend on other things to distract them; etc), and so they continue to be plagued by past pain.
Someone has coined the term, Post Traumatic Growth. That paints an infinitely more hopeful reality, filled with possibilities, not to mention being able to process and overcome past pain. Giving this a “diagnosis” of a “disorder” does not help, while it often causes a great deal of damage. It also leaves the person at the mercy of drugs and many so-called experts cause even more harm.
Not quite, a diagnosis is traditionally considered “the identification of the nature of an illness or other problem by examination of the symptoms”.
For example, you might have a sore throat as a symptom. This can point to a whole host of potential underlying diseases, but it would require a more detailed test to determine exactly what specific disease it is (e.g. Strep, some other virus/bacteria, vocal cord overuse, GERD, etc). Saying someone has PTSD is the equivalent of saying someone has “sort throat disease” instead of a more specific diagnosis like Strep throat. A diagnosis of PTSD doesn’t identify the nature of what is going on inside their mind that led them to demonstrate those symptoms following a traumatic event, it only recognizes that the symptoms do exist in certain individuals following some traumatic event (while others can go through the same events and not show any of those symptoms). It is the nature of the underlying thoughts and attitudes, and the solution to dealing with those where the large gulf exists between atheist psychology and the godly worldview.
I could not agree more that ADHD – an ailment virtually unknown until relatively recently – is a manufactured mental health issue. I’m not so sure about PTSD, as the suicide rate for veterans and others exposed to severe trauma testify to its existence.
I think Dr. MacAuthur’s point with PTSD is the notion of it having an objective and universal “existence” apart from the collection of behavior patterns that are exhibited following trauma in certain individuals. It is a semantic and philosophical point but it gets to the heart of how we conceive of these things. It also demonstrates the great power that comes from controlling the naming of things.
I think most people with PTSD are really just more aware of the perilous nature of the world and of their own life, but don’t have anything strong enough to either distract or comfort them from that reality like most “normal” people do. The behaviors that they present with are completely logical and rational given that realization, but they aren’t very conducive to a well ordered society so they get labeled as an “illness” that needs to be “fixed”. Most people just live in a stupefied state in which they try not to think about the real nature of this evil world, but when you have been through a traumatic event, you realize how delusional it is to pretend like your life is secure. The reality is that we all are living on the edge of a precipice and the only thing stopping us from falling off already is God’s mercy. The goal of therapy/drugs is to return the person to the “normal” stupefied state. The best long-term solution is to put on the armor of God and put our trust in Him, but many find enough distraction in food, games, sports, media, alcohol, sex, drugs, etc, and remain sufficiently content such that they do not demonstrate the behaviors associated with PTSD. The attitude David demonstrates in various Psalms (e.g. 3, 4, 18, 23, etc.) is a direct counterpoint to the attitudes demonstrated by people diagnosed with PTSD, despite David going through traumatic experiences.
The same applies to depression as well — depressed people are just more enlightened as to the utter pointlessness and hopelessness of this world apart from God. They are acting out the logical, rational response to that realization. We want to “fix” that with drugs and atheist therapy instead of seeing it as a valuable catalyst that can draw people towards trusting in God like David did, the ultimate fix.
Not all ADHD is the same.
Certainly a lot of it is an excuse for bad/lazy parenting.
That said, some of it is because of brain damage caused by Mom doing drugs while pregnant.
Foster Parents, and Parents that adopted kids from Foster care know this and know the difference.
You can’t just make an all encompassing statement on this.
You are right. The AHDH, ADD, ADHD, ald;kgj;fkjga;dkfna alphabet diagnosis were given to children beginning in the late 1980’s – early 1990’s to medicate the little darlings to get them to comply when parents stopped being a parent and wanted to be their child’s friend. Who did these darlings grow up to be? Our lovely millienial group. PTSD used to be only applied to soldiers given the horror they experience especially in modern warfare.
My issue with it (and I think it might be where Dr. MacArthur was going given his comments on the alphabet soup generation) is that psychiatrist apply it to everyone now. If you stub your toe, “oh, I have PTSD.” I have been arguing about this for several years myself. It is a DISGRACE to our veterans to trivilalize the term that they truly live with.
Now let’s go back to how we got the millenials. Who are the children who continued to be heavily medicated (advocated by their schools and pedicatricians), get over 70 “vaccines” through their childhoods, getting trophies for everything including losing, having safe spaces and being able to go up to someone and tell them they are a dog and want to be treated as such? Snowflakes. And we have flurries right behind them.
He was certainly very clumsy, at best, in addressing this. Yet there is also some truth. These “Disorders” are literally made up (they did not exist until recently, but the underlying issues have essentially always existed).
New disorders are constructed everyday, even with things that might pale compared to severe trauma, like: “Caffeine Use Disorder.” There is even: “Oppositional Defiant Disorder.” Eventually everything will be a disorder.
JM is quoted several times using the term “mental illness” (as if it is a real thing) but he also, at least seemingly, refers to it as a myth. There are a multitude of people, including countless non-Christians, and even psychologists and psychiatrists (he mentions Szasz) that reject the construct of “mental illness.” It should be self-evident that, if we think this through, that the mind (which is non-physical) cannot have an illness or disease (which is physical). The body can, and the brain certainly can, but our mind cannot (just like our thoughts or ideas cannot be diseased). That is nothing new.
For a great article on the subject, which quotes those esteemed in the psychological world, see: https://biblicalcounseling.com/resource-library/articles/can-jesus-heal-mental-illness-part-1/
Quite ironically, labeling people with a disorder often does a lot of damage to them, including mentally. All that, in addition to the damage that frequently happens through all the humanism psychobable in how these unfortunate souls are treated.
Sigh….this felt like a time warp back 25 years. I thought our corner of Christianity had grown into a more nuanced, balanced approach. It seems JMAC presented either-or answers to both-and questions. We can challenge the construct of mental illness but still recognize that bodies need one type of care, and souls another. Here’s hoping that this was just tunnel vision on JMAC’s part having recently written the book he mentioned.
I agree with ADHD not being legit for sure. I think different kids have different attention spans and parents have to learn how to parent that particular child. Maybe PTSD.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, whose father was a psychiatrist (before psychology became a seperate discipline) wrote:
“The most experienced psychologist or observer of human nature knows infinitely less of the human heart than the simplest Christian who lives beneath the Cross of Jesus. The greatest psychological insight, ability, and experience cannot grasp this one thing: what sin is. Worldly wisdom knows what distress and weakness and failure are, but it does not know the godlessness of man. And so it also does not know that man is destroyed only by his sin and can be healed only by forgiveness. Only the Christian knows this. In the presence of a psychiatrist I can only be a sick man; in the presence of a Christian brother I can dare to be a sinner. The psychiatrist must first search my heart and yet he never plumbs its ultimate depth. The Christian brother knows when I come to him: here is a sinner like myself, a godless man who wants to confess and yearns for God’s forgiveness. The psychiatrist views me as if there were no God. The brother views me as I am before the judging and merciful God in the Cross of Jesus Christ.”
There are a lot of good things in that quote, however, I would strongly disagree in that it implies the psychiatrist has ANY understanding of the heart. Anyone who has rejected God and His Word – especially if they only see humans a soulless beings – has no ability to grasp our inner-being.
In great irony, they cannot grasp our “psyche” yet PSYCHiatry and PSYCHology purports to be that which truly understands and can treat the “psyche” or soul.
100%
Love JohnnyMac, but this is a dangerous statement.
How is it a “dangerous statement?” Did you actually hear the context in full of what he said?
JohnnyMac is Right.
I have personal experience with the evil of psychiatry. The medications they push that do not help and they fail to monitor the medicated for side effects. They destroy families when they tell a patient your feelings and emotions more important than everyone else. Psychiatry is evil.
Our prozac story…
Antidepressants and their dangerous side effects are ignored by the very doctors who prescribe them.
I learned about this very real problem with my adult son who has been on prescription antidepressants for years (He was diagnosed with Aspergers when he was 12). His current psychiatrist added prozac to his cocktail. He became suicidal and having homicidal thoughts. He became so alarmed that he called his doctor after hours. She called me to go to him as she was “concerned”. The following day she suggested he go to the hospital. He was admitted to the psychiatric ward. After 24 hours of being subjected to other patients who were addicted to illegal drugs or alcoholics, he was begging me to get him out of there. I called his psychiatrist who referred me to the staff psychiatrist as he was not under her care while in hospital. The staff Doc would not release him due to the homicidal thoughts. I was perplexed, so had a discussion with my son and a nurse. Together we figured out the prozac connection and I looked up the side effects. I was blown away that neither Doctor NEVER suggested taking him off the prozac. The nurse told my son he “needed to make that request”. He did and after 24 hours the thoughts stopped and he was released. I was furious at these two Docs. — I firmly believe these drugs are overprescribed and the doctors do a poor job of monitoring patients for these well known side effects —
Our story happened January 2017. I became convinced of the evils of psychiatry after this incident. I have been unsuccessful in convincing my son of this. They have him on the hook. I pray for him and all who are victims of pharmaceutical and medical evil.
Destroying a family….
I have another relative who has seen a psychiatrist for years for depression. All they did for her was convince her to divorce her husband because she was unhappy. They helped her ruin a beautiful family and her children suffered tremendously. They brought out all her worst narccistic traits convincing her that SELF is more important than others.
JOHN MACARTHUR IS RIGHT, psychiatry is evil and demonic.
Read “Medication Madness”, book by Peter R. Breggin, MD or go to his website. Also, Butchered By “Healthcare” byRobert A. Yoho MD. He has entire chapter on psychiatry. “Psychobabble” by Richard Ganz. “Deceptive Diagnosis, when sin is called sickness” by David Tyler & Kurt Grady https://breggin.com/article-detail/post_detail/simple-truths?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
What is mental illness? People need to define mental illness. About 10 years ago “self-care” popped all over the places on the cover of magazines and books. It was the answer to mental illness. It looks like mental illness is applied to everything. At the same time, it negates personal responsibility and good/evil. There are diseases that deals with imbalance of chemicals in the brain which needs treatment. Pastor John Macarthur is right.
Ephesians 6:10-15
The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore *, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,