John Piper Tells Shepherds Conference Pastors: Our Love for Jesus is ‘Erotic to the Core’
During his message at the 2024 Shepherds Conference, John Piper took a garotte to the scriptures, giving it a little tug by offering an uncomfortable and strained comparison of Christ’s relationship to the Church to a man’s sexual relationship with his wife, saying:
What are we after in our people’s lives? And everybody said, obedience. So did I, amen. But you had already quoted, if you love me, you will obey me. So I’m thinking, I’m after love, folks. And you are too.
And because that love, that love is not equal to obedience and that love is not equal to agape, that love is erotic to the core. That’s an overstatement. Eros means I find pleasure in you, Jesus. I find pleasure in you, Jesus.
You are my preciousness. And there comes obedience.
Commenting on his error, The Dissenter notes:
(Piper) appears to be attempting to reclaim the term “eros” to illustrate a deep, consuming love for Jesus that seeks pleasure in the joy of communion with Him. But that isn’t biblical, and that is the problem. Not only does the New Testament never once use the term “eros” to describe the love between Christ and the Church, but the biblical portrayal of our love for Jesus is deeply relational, characterized by agape—selfless, sacrificial love. It is not typically associated with the English term “erotic,” due to its contemporary connotations.
Piper’s allusion to the erotic love of Jesus likely stems from his distinctive view of “Christian hedonism” (“God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him,”) which he has popularized and is the source of frequent error- in this case, the nature of the joy we find in Christ.
Friend of the site and long-time Grace Community Church staffer Fred Butler took exception to our critique. He offered a slight defense of Piper, rejoining that Piper quickly clarified what he meant and that it wasn’t as ‘out there’ as people were making it out to be. Still, he seemed to admit that despite the clarification, it’s still Piper being Piper.
For more on Piper:
John Piper Using Marxist Feminist Arguments to Claim that David Raped Bathsheba
John Piper Says You’re Ugly So That Others Can Be Reminded of Sin and the Devil
John Piper’s Embarrassing Vax Shaming
Late last year I listened to the Puritan Conference from 2022. During Piper’s “sermon” I noticed he misused a Scripture right at the beginning, which was a foundational footing from the rest of his message (I don’t remember what it was; I would have to go back and listen again). Ligon Duncan also spoke and I kept wondering why they were even there (to be fair, I don’t remember anything weird from Duncan’s message).
Piper has been adrift for a while.
Would you trust this man to sell you a used car?
John Piper, the ESV and “How Can a Pastor Lovingly Move His Congregation From the King James Bible to a Better Translation?”
John Piper of Desiring God Ministries says: “When I turned 15 my parents gave me a beautiful, leather-bound King James Bible. I loved it….God met me in this book day after day when I was a teenager…Three and a half years later as a freshman at Wheaton I picked up the first Bible I ever bought for myself, a Revised Standard Version. It was close enough to the King James so that I felt at home, but its English was not Elizabethan; it was my English. This became my reading, meditating, memorizing Bible for the next 37 years… I would be happy to see the NIV sail into the sunset if it could be replaced by the ESV as the standard preaching, reading, memorizing Bible of the English-speaking church… I have longed that there be something more readable than the NASB and more literal than the NIV. The NIV is a paraphrase with so much unnecessary rewording and so much interpretation that I could not preach from it…I am simply arguing that the ESV is the best balance available of readability and literalness. I hope that it becomes the standard for the church.”
(Comment: There are numerous and profound differences between the KJB and the RSV. After studying this issue for several years now, I certainly am not of the opinion that the RSV is “close enough”.
John Piper, though a Christian minister, is a very confused man when it comes to the Bible version issue and whether or not we have such a thing as a complete, inspired and 100% true Bible “with all the words in them”.
Just watch this 2 minute video called “Get a Bible With All the Words” with John Piper trying to teach on John 4:42 to 53 where he criticizes and complains about the extremely minor paraphrase found in the NIV where they substitute something else for two simple words “for” and “then” (or ‘therefore’). Here is the short video –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdc10WJVtZs
Mr. Piper criticizes the NIV for leaving out just two little words and then says: “If you want to get something where all the words are there, then get the ESV or the NASB or the New King James Version, or…you know, I’m not trying to sell anything. I just want all the words, because I lean on them. I make my point from them.”
Well, this sentiment may sound very pious, noble and spiritual but isn’t Mr. Piper aware of the simple FACTS that his favorite ESV OMITS literally THOUSANDS OF WORDS from the text of the New Testament including 18 entire verses when compared to his recommended NKJV?
His ESV omits even more whole verses than does his also recommended NASB (See Matthew 12:47 for example) and in comparison to BOTH the NKJV and NASB his ESV ADDS HUNDREDS of words to the Hebrew Old Testament that not even the NASB does.
See for example 1 Samuel 10:1 where the ESV adds 42 words to the Hebrew text that are not found in either the NASB, NKJV, NIV, Holman Standard or King James Bible.
See also 1 Samuel 14:41 where his ESV add some 36 words to the Hebrew text that are not found in the RV, ASV, NASB, NKJV, KJB, Holman Standard or the NIV 1984 edition (but the ever changing NIV 2011 also added them).
And these are just 2 examples out of a hundred that I know about where his ESV either adds to or rejects the inspired Hebrew text. Just where exactly does Mr. Piper have ANY Bible that he truly believes “has all the words in it”?
John Piper had also made another short 2 1/2 minute video regarding his favorite ESV that he titles: “How can a pastor respectfully and lovingly move his congregation from the King James Version to a better translation?”
You can see it here – (unless he has now removed it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHcsdKeUBgs
John Piper referrs to his ESV and other modern versions as being “just as accurate and more helpful” and his main reason for “moving a congregation from the KJB to a better translation” is because he says the Bible should be in “a common language, not formal, literary, 300 year old stilted language” and that “we need new translations from time to time.”
It never seems to enter the thinking of people like John Piper, John MacArthur and others who glowingly recommend the ESV as being “just as accurate” as the King James Bible that the ESV omits literally THOUSANDS of words from the God inspired texts found in the King James Bible.
The ESV omits some 18 entire verses from the New Testament, even more than do the NASB, NIV and the ESV ADDS literally HUNDREDS of words to the Hebrew texts that not even the NASB, NIV do; and all three of these “just as accurate” modern versions reject scores of Hebrew readings and not even in the same places.
He doesn’t even mention the huge textual differences that exist among all these “just as accurate” versions nor refer to the completely different meanings found in hundreds of verses. This would completely undermine his whole position.
Instead he tells us that the main reason for getting away from the King James Bible and embracing a modern version is because “we need new translations from time to time that are not in stilted, literary 300 year old language but in modern language.”
His reasoning may sound convincing to those who are either ignorant or unconcerned about the very real and serious TEXTUAL differences between the King James Bible and most modern versions. But how in the name of logic or God given common sense can two very different Texts both be “just as accurate”?!!!?
Oh, and by the way, all those “stilted, literary 300 year old” thee’s and ye’s are FAR more accurate to the underlying Hebrew and Greek texts and often make a very big difference in meaning than Mr. Piper’s “common language” use of the generic “you”.
Here is why the use of Thee and Ye is far more accurate and should be kept –
http://brandplucked.com/theeandye.htm
See much more in the way of concrete facts and examples from the constantly changing, Vatican supervised text ESVs here-
http://brandplucked.com/theesv.htm
“Christian hedonism” is about as far out and blasphemous as you can get. Jesus didn’t promise us a good earthly life. He told us upfront how hard life would be. And heretical. But he made us to understand that we believers would see him again in heaven and there, we would never suffer again.
Veronica, Christian hedonism is not what you think (based on your comments). If you know anything about Piper’s teachings, he would be the last one to say Jesus promised us a “good earthly life.” Far from it. Christian hedonism is simply shorthand for Piper’s oft quoted phrase, “God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.” Another definition of Christian hedonism could be summed up by the 1st of the Ten Commandments, that God would be our first and primary love, or the Great Commandment, love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.
So, God’s glory is dependant upon my reaction/emotion, got it. I have to have a certain emotional action in order for God to receive more glory. I guess I’m just not gay enough to want Jesus sexually. Piper is long past being put out to pasture.
If John Piper had not already been making doctrinally questionable comments the last few years, I would say this was baloney…a comment taken totally out of context. But he had already been moving into enough strange and I think, unbiblical, territory, such that I had already written him off as having grown old and senile or having been lured into cultural relevancy to the point of losing Scriptural high ground.
If Piper had said have a romance (or bromance) with Jesus, I could embrace that as a concept for men as well as women. But eros (sexual) was NEVER ONCE used in Scripture as the appropriate response to Jesus, and the very idea is repulsive and disrespectful, even as a woman. I don’t know what the old man meant, and I will give him grace that he has made a verbal mistake or become senile. But as it reads, Piper seems to be laying the groundwork for approving homosexuality, which affirms to me that my no longer listening to him was a good decision.
in scripture, the pagan cults (or can we say, the demon cults) are connected with graphic sexual ceremony.
The church is not.
I reject Piper’s twisting, once again. Just as i reject the feminized “boyfriend worship” coming out of Hillsong and Bethel.
And the comment on rockstar leaders is timely.
Pastors are not immune from saying things for the “wow did you hear what XYZ said.” Too many pastors want to be rock stars. Unfortunately, many believers follow these pastor rock starts like groupies. Eros is not in the Greek NT. I do understand his point – obey with joy, but don’t imitate the world with these types of attention getters. There are a million things that the Bible does teach, why don’t you stick to that.
The bigger problem is that so many church/ministry leaders give support to Piper, as they do with Tim Keller. Keller was more flagrant in his openly altering God’s Word, and to fit Woke ideology. More specifically, he changed multiple verses, with Psalm 33:5 being one, as it says:
He loves righteousness and justice;
The earth is full of the goodness of
the Lord.
Yet Keller changed it to:
The Lord loves SOCIAL JUSTICE;
the earth is full of his unfailing love.
However, very few know or care.
M, so very true about Keller & that both he & Piper are embraced by huge numbers of evangelicals & few seem to care.
Plus, his doctrine of “Final Justification” is utterly confusing as he can’t even explain it by Scripture, nor with any coherencecy to sSola Fide. It borders on being saved by works, and is oh so dangerously close to Rome’s false gospel. I do agree above with the other commenter, he should be marked and avoided by Christians just for his Scripture and WCFSC twistings. It may be more desperate groundwork laying for the Church to accept sodomites into the fold. Be watchful as the Lord said and let no man deceive us….that includes men/ministers who have credit due to their past reputations and popularity. It’s not always about how Christians start the race, but how we finish…Anyone can apostatize though we believe in the 5th point, even those who we thought were genuine in their donning of sheep’s (shepherd’s) clothing.
Piper bromance with Sam Allberry is apostasy. Mark and avoid both of these apostates.