White Horse Inn Says Pastors are Causing Gay Teens to Commit Suicide
Justin Holcomb is an Episcopal priest and a theology professor at Reformed Theological Seminary and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Perhaps best known for his book ‘Rid of My Disgrace: Hope and Healing for Victims of Sexual Assault‘ he co-hosts the White Horse Inn podcast with Michel Horton and Bob Hiller.
In a recent episode, they note the large number of LGBTQ-identifying folk who have left the church and offer that the church should speak about homosexuality from the pulpit, but “(the way) they are addressed, must not ever sound like CNN or Fox News.”
Horton: 86% of LGBTQ+ people who were raised in a faith community… with more than three fourths in mostly Evangelical, theological, religious, conservative communities. So that is to say, a large majority of people who identify with those that acronym, they were brought up in conservative Christian churches, and they have left…Why have they left the church? My guess, is that the conversation from the pulpit was ‘here are the evils of that sexual orientation, that temptation, that sin, that are ruining our culture, and if you’re a part of that group, you’re them, you’re out. And, if you identify that way, in our church, we’re going to kick you out or send you to camp until we fix you, and then you can come back and join us” because apparently, that’s how we’ve ever dealt with sin in the church is sending someone to a camp.
So what ends up happening is you start preaching against the culture, more than to the 13 year old boy who struggles with his sexuality in your pew. Who’s sitting there worried that he’s praying against this thing, and he’s terrified God’s gonna send them to hell. And you, from the pulpit, just affirm that for him. And so he says, ‘God hates me anyways, I don’t need to hear it every Sunday, why go back?’ instead of saying to him, ‘the Lord Jesus Christ took up a cross to die for you. He’s raised for your salvation and your justification. He’s promised you new life. You have a cross you’re going to have to bear, and we as the congregation are going to bear it with you. We’re not going to approve of homosexual activity in the church. Of course not. But we’re also not going to kick you out because you think that this is something you can’t overcome. We’re here to bear the burden with you, to carry you in our arms up to the altar to receive the body and blood of Christ with us.’To remove that preaching from the ears and the hearts of the people in the pews, so that we can fix the culture is to miss our calling as pastors and as the church altogether.”
Holocomb: “Thinking of that 13-year-old boy, think of a pastor who wants to make a statement about sexual ethics for the culture. And they say that statement so clearly, unaware that a same-sex attracted teen is going to be four times more likely to consider suicide. The idea that we’ve traded in proclamation of good news to make a political moment, to be careless with your words, and to make a sheep of his flock think they need to not live, is a moment for deep repentance for that person.”
While it’s true that pastors need to be pastoral when talking about sin, it’s pure manipulation to dangle the threat of a teen throwing himself off a building or hanging herself in her bedroom and laying it at the foot of a pastor if he zealously preaches against that sin, or he doesn’t condemn it in a way that is well-received by the man or woman either battling it or joyfully frolicking in it. Perhaps the cause of their sadness and shame is the sin itself and the law of God being held up against their life, causing them so much discomfort.
It’s not just the teen suicide rate, but the trans adult suicide rate is much higher than the general population. Is railing against the impact that the trans movement has had on the culture at large from the pulpit anathema because they might kill themselves? Perhaps the pastors should start using personal pronouns to affirm them in this manner because otherwise a careless word will really kill them.
To say that pastors must temper their tongues on account of the rate of suicidality in those being confronted about their sin is not a biblical concept, mainly because the weight of sin is a weighty thing. Sin is a shameful thing that manifests even more shame in the holder’s heart. Whether preaching against adultery, theft, murder, child abuse, pedophilia, gossip, drug use, etc, people feeling deep depression and anxiety to the point that they might not want to live after hearing the rebuke is not the fault of the pastor, and drudging up suicide rates and admonishing pastors that life hangs in the balance if they get it wrong is needless manipulation that is completely uncalled for.
Editor’s note. We’re not accusing these men of being soft on homosexuality. Consider this friendly fire in the form of correction.
h/t The Dissenter
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The biblical instructions and biblical examples are confrontational and eventually lead to separation for many ongoing habitual sins. A feeling of not being included and accepted is the typical reason for suicidal tendencies no matter what group is not accepting and affirming. Liberal and LGBTQ groups are very unaccepting of various ideas and convictions as well, and they shun and ostracize the non-conformers to an even greater degree, although they use the term “canceled”. They have no concern for suicidal tendencies of those they cancel, but Christians do.
Those who are in opposition to the instruction of God and Truth will leave the true Church. These people will then go to a false church or the world, whether teen or adult. A work of God through the Holy Spirit is what will bring them back.
1 Corinthians 6:11 ESV
… And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Boldly proclaim the truth while exhibiting the Fruit of the Spirit as we interact with others. Both are God’s instructions to us. Only He can change hearts, we just need to make sure we’re not a stumbling stone, whether that comes from not informing or from callousness.
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>> drug users overdose and kill themselves
>> it’s YOUR FAULT white Christian man for warning them if consequences
>> better to preach about the virtues of shooting up. Youth pastor should supply needles
God’s Word is not abusive. His commandments are not grievous (1 John 5:3).
Secondly, it is a learned behavior.
Thirdly, if you’re goal is to do anything and everything that will fill the most pews, you’re already way off track, and are destined to continue farther off track.
Fourthly, the cross we bear is not a cross of sin. It is not to carry the burden of our sin. That is not what the scripture means.
*Your
You’re starting to make corrections now? Nice work, hunk.
Foolish child. I have been undergoing correction since the day I humbled myself, repented, and gave my life to the Lord Jesus Christ.
You should try that.
Name-calling: corrupt trees bear evil fruit.
I’ve committed no sin. The name fits you, child. It’s the truth. Now, get lost.
If you say you’re without sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.
How many times are you going to suggest I be murdered?
What a cool guy. Very christ-like.
You are also an arrogant, prideful, godless, smart-aleck, trouble-making, self-absorbed pest. And I’m sure with time, I could think of plenty more names that fit. You’ve falsely accused. Therefore, you deserve no pity.
You’ve heard the Gospel. You’ve heard God’s Word. You’ve rejected it. Now have some respect and move on. Go!
I did not say that I’m without sin, child. Yet again you falsely accuse, and yet again you are deserving of no pity, you sniveling twit.
Like it or not, it is not a sin to “call names” when the names fit. Now run along.
So much hate in your heart. It’s almost like your honor god with your words, but your heart is far away.
Enough! May the Lord rebuke you! May He not withhold His wrath from you!
Depart, you worker of iniquity!
GO!
When confronted with truths, you have no bravery, and thus, are not a big manly man. My hope for you is that one day you’ll forsake all of your pride and hate for the pursuit of love.
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” – Jesus (John 14:15)
You don’t know the truth. You’ve rejected the truth. You don’t know what love is. You don’t know what hate is. You know not, because you have rejected the Word of God.
I hate your iniquitous, deceitful tactics. I hate your sin. I hate your constant pestering. I hate your harassment. I hate your repeated attempts to pressure me, mess with me, to try to convince me to reject God’s Word. I hate your wickedness.
You are a worker of iniquity.
You’re darned right I hate. As God hates sin, so does the Holy Spirit within me. And I will never apologize for it.
Prideful is the one who rejects God’s Word, and attempts to set himself above it. As I said, prideful one. Your little opinion is worthless. Your wicked hopes are worthless. I could not possibly care less about what you think or what you want.
GO!
You are not convicted of sin. You are not convicted of righteousness. You are not convicted of judgment.
You love sin.
You hate righteousness.
You have no fear of the Lord and His judgment.
The Holy Spirit is not in you! You are a worker of iniquity. That is your fruit. And lest you truly repent, you are going to hear those words again. Jesus will say to you “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”
Now quit pestering me, child. I’ve had enough of your harassment.
GO!
You revel in abominable sin that is so bad it is worthy of death. You pressure and extort God’s people, even targeting the little ones. If we were under the law, you would’ve already been taken out and stoned to death.
And in your arrogance you try to tell others they are not bearing good fruit?
This is you:
“For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” – Jude 1:4
Enough of your harassment! Enough of your foolishness!
GO!
You are deceitful. You are manipulative. You are shifty and inconsistent. You are rebellious. Attacking from every angle, and employing every tactic, you can dream up.
You try to cause others to sin.
You try to convince others to reject God’s Word.
You revel in it.
You are a stinking, filthy, vile, wretched wolf.
That is your fruit.
Love does not rejoice in iniquity! (1 Cor. 6:13) You don’t know what love is!
DEPART FROM ME!
Your persistent harassment is a perfect example why churches should honor God’s Word and never allow abominable wolves like you to step foot anywhere near the Lord’s House!
You can’t help yourself. You won’t quit until you’ve corrupted everyone around you. You wont quit until you’ve dragged everyone else into the prodigal pigpen with you, employing every dirty, wicked, manipulative trick imaginable. You won’t quit until everyone else bows and kisses your feet to worship you and your sin.
You’re a destructive, rotten disease!
And I say this out of LOVE for my fellow sheep!
I think someone has a crush.
And that is yet another false accusation worthy of the death penalty.
Like I said. Being the abomination you are, you can’t help yourself!
Wicked reprobate. That wasn’t posted for you.
That was posted for my fellow sheep. But with your wicked response, you have only reinforced the fact that everything I have posted here is true. I know exactly what you are, and have known. That’s called discernment.
I told you. I post as the Lord leads. To speak to all who read.
It has nothing to do with you, prideful one.
Nothing draws people to jesus like threatening people with death and comparing human beings to diseases.
You wouldn’t know, wolf. You’ve rejected Him. You’ve rejected His Word.
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” – Rom. 6:23
When you falsely accuse someone of a sin that carries a death penalty, then by God’s law, you have committed a death penalty offense. You are worthy of the same punishment.
You are a disease. Sin is a disease. Abominable sin, in particular, because you hijack the grace of God, hijack the concept of love, hijack the concept of hate, and it spreads like rot. And Jude 1 specifically tells us to earnestly contend against wolves like you, who have tried to turn the grace of God into license for immorality, because you are a particularly nasty sort of disease, that, as stated prior, will not quit until you’ve corrupted everything and everyone around you, making a mockery of the Lord’s House.
That very response of yours is rotten and diseased, as it implies a false gospel – not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, but a false gospel that might fill more pews, and only spread more rot. (exactly one of the points made about this article in my the original post)
You do indeed deserve death. You are indeed diseased. And that’s exactly why you need a Savior.
You want God’s people to embrace you, accept you, and support you in your open, prideful, arrogant rebellion against God and His Word. It doesn’t work that way, child. You want the church to accept you while you reject the Gospel. It doesn’t work that way, child.
Because you are such a dangerous disease, the Bible says you are to be shunned, and we are to have nothing to do with you (2 Tim. 3). You are to be expelled from the church (1 Cor. 5). It’s not supposed to appeal to you. It’s not supposed to make you feel good about yourself in your sinful condition.
But you have no conviction of sin. You have a seared conscience. You revel in sin. You joke and ridicule. You are not of sober mind. You specifically tried to isolate and target me, from the beginning, as your display name and posts attest, because rather than engage in any introspection at all, you decided to shoot the messenger. You have no humility. You speak of shame, but you don’t have any real shame for your sin. Instead you try to shame righteousness. You try to target and shame those who believe God’s Word. You try to lash out and strike back, like a rebellious child. But we Bible-believing Christians do not have the same worldview as you, which is why your assumptions are ludicrously wrong. Even after hearing the truth here, and being confronted with the facts of your wretched condition, you still rebel, with your nose as high in the air as it could possibly be. You are a wolf.
I would implore you to repent, but I know that you won’t. You are too far gone.
You don’t even have the decency to capitalize Jesus’ name.
Ironic, considering your first post here striking out at me, using a display name in mockery of mine, was to criticize my grammar. Since your English skills are that great, one can only conclude that you purposefully refuse to capitalize His name, out of purposeful disrespect.
Everybody reading your posts over the past several days knows exactly what you are. Many are far wiser, smarter, and more discerning than me. You are fooling no one.
And when I say church, I’m talking about the universal Church. I’m talking about all born again Christians, over whom Jesus Christ is Lord and Master. I’m not talking about any buildings, businesses, organizations, or congregations. I’m not talking about the apostates calling themselves a church.
You are basically saying that God’s Word takes the wrong approach. That’s what you’re saying. You’re saying God Himself shouldn’t be telling people they are diseased and worthy of death. You think you know better than He does. You think He doesn’t know how to present His own Gospel. You think God’s Word is wrong, and you are right. That’s your problem all along. As conveyed to you numerous times, you not only try to set yourself above others, but above God Himself. You are a wolf. You may claim to be a Christian, but you are not. You are headed straight for Hell.
You are born with a sinful nature. You are born with a rebellious spirit. That is how you’re born. Whether you are given to sexual immorality, or support, defend, and revel in those who are, is of little difference. It’s the same rebellious spirit.
You lash out at me with that rebellious spirit, as if you’re trying to rebel against me, as if men like me are your problem. But I’m just a sheep. Your assumptions couldn’t be more wrong. You’re not really lashing out at me. You’re lashing out against God and His Word.
I made all this clear when you first tried to isolate and attack. You can challenge me all you want. I’m nobody’s lord or savior. But the standard is God’s Word.
It pertains to the subject of this article and the video above. This seeker mess, just trying to fill pews, and so on, is selling a false gospel. Romans 6:23 spells it out clearly. The appeal is redemption. The gift of God is redemption. Yet without conviction of sin, there is no appeal to redemption. The first clause of that verse is absolutely necessary in order to convey the second. What good is it to fill pews with a false feel-good gospel that just pats people on the back and encourages them to continue toward eternal damnation. What is a gift of redemption, if your message is that redemption isn’t needed. It’s evil.
No man can sell the true and real Gospel any better than God can. None of us know better than He does. His word DOES NOT return void. If someone says something that is Biblically accurate, then DO NOT challenge it. Notions as to whether or not it might hurt someone else’s feelings, is of no significance. It’s supposed to convict of sin! Lean not on your own understanding. If hearing God’s Word produces that sort of rebellious reaction in you, then there is something seriously wrong in your heart, and you need to repent. If you respond at all, let it be with scripture and/or Biblically accurate message.
It is never wrong to convey Biblically sound concepts. Never. At no time, in no place, to no one, is it ever wrong.
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” – 2 Tim. 3:16
Only wolves in sheep’s clothing will attack the sheep out of concern for the wolves.
They whisper, “This is not the time or place.”
They’ll say, “That’s true, but ….”
Might even say stupid things like “You posted run-on sentences!”
Or maybe “You post too much!”
That’s a wolf speaking through the mask of a sheep. Every single time.
Need to make a correction. Most probably understand what was meant, but it could be wrong to speak at times when the Bible itself tells us it would be wrong to speak. In the context here, and the attempts to silence posters on this website, the point stands.
You are everything you accuse me of. It’s embarrassing.
Anyone who has read your posts at this website knows better.
I never suggested you be murdered, and everyone who reads what I’ve written, who knows scripture, who knows the Gospel, knows that I did no such thing.
But in falsely claiming that I suggested any such thing, you have, yet again, proven everything I’ve posted here about you to be 100% correct. Above all else, it proves that you adhere to a false gospel. You don’t know anything at all about the Gospel. You are completely ignorant.
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom. 6:23)
That’s God Almighty speaking. Not me.
That’s not a call for your murder. That’s a call for you to REPENT.
If anyone else is reading, the resident troll here also just responded above under the wrong post, falsely accusing me of suggesting murder.
I specifically stated that you are to be shunned, that we are to turn away from you according to 2 Tim 3:5. That you should not be allowed in the church.
Even though you are very ignorant of scripture, it still shouldn’t take much brain power to understand that were I even remotely suggesting murder, I wouldn’t have referenced those scriptures.
Under Old Testament law, you would’ve (that’s PAST TENSE), been put to death. But we are no longer under the law. But you’re still guilty of death penalty offenses. You’re still worthy of death (Rom 1:32). And if you don’t repent, you will suffer eternal death. But our duty as Christians is to wait on the Lord (2 Pet. 3:9). As He is waiting on you to repent.
Everything I’ve posted, to which you’ve taken issue, is actually very basic stuff that any born again, Bible-believing, Spirit-filled Christian knows and understands very well. Just about anybody who’s ever cracked open a Bible.
If they’re reading, they all know. They may not post, but they know. And I know they know.
Yours is an atheistic, darwinist, freudian worldview. Your tactics would work on someone similar to you. But they cannot work on someone who adheres to God’s Word. As I said to you on day-one, when you first started pestering me. Your tactics are no match. You cannot defeat God’s Word.
One of your first false accusations, when you took that display name and started pestering me several threads back, was that my purpose for posting was to to shame people over things they don’t understand. You lashed out, apparently trying to shame me back in revenge. But the reality is that you’re trying to shame me over things that you, yourself, don’t understand. That cannot work, and it never will. You are far too ignorant of scripture. But as I have said all along, and as I stated to you in the very first response back to you, you are welcome to correct me on anything using scripture. But you must use scripture. I’m not going to be ruled by your opinion or your cinderella feelings, nor will I be ruled by a godless worldview. My Lord and Master is Jesus Christ. If you cannot correct me with His Word, then you are wasting your time.
And of course that compulsion to lash out was a product of your godless relativistic worldview.
Whatever makes you feel good you consider righteousness.
Whatever makes you feel bad you consider sin.
Whatever you think makes others feel good you consider righteousness.
Whatever you think makes others feel bad you consider sin.
All of which is extremely contrary to God’s Word.
I said something somewhere that bothered you. It either hurt your feelings, or you thought it might hurt someone else’s. So you lashed out at me for that “wrong”
And again, I post mostly for the benefit of others reading. Not for wolves like you.
There are many more troubling things you’ve said, but I’ve posted enough to completely obliterate your latest false accusation of projection.
But you were somewhat correct on one thing. There is indeed a pattern. Not mine, but yours.
See, everyone here knows I post on all sorts of threads, on all sorts of issues, and have done so for two years now. But you took that display name, and began vehemently pestering me, only on certain threads, and only in response to certain subjects. To my knowledge, you’ve made only one single post here that hasn’t been a pestering response directly to me, and that was a completely irrelevant post on another thread asking Protestia about their site style. You’ve responded to no one else. And that is your only top level post thus far. In your case, the pattern is readily observable.
I may not know exactly which category you fall into, but I’m certain that you fall somewhere within the description of Romans 1:32.
If anyone’s projecting, it’s you.
If you’re trolling, which is the only other alternative, then you’ve severely contaminated your own experiment. In which case, it is impossible reach any valid rational conclusions.
You not only fail miserably when going against God’s Word, you fail miserably in just about every way possible.
Baloney!
John Harris’s conversations that matter podcast did an excellent review on the white horse inn